Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

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  • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

    Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
    @graybooks: with the settings you've described, have you tried pressing Tab in a blank Dialogue element? Does it work as expected, as is my case?

    Welcome to the DDP message board.
    Yes, I tried it your way and got your result. Then went back, added a word in the same dialogue position, hit TAB and got a new Character element.

    And thanks for the welcome. I've been lurking for a while...

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    • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

      Sorry to take so long to jump in on this. I've had the tab open for a couple of days meaning to find the time to respond properly.

      The current behavior was arrived at as a combination of what screenwriters expect (i.e., largely what existing software did) and what made the most sense in terms of flexibility. In terms of "what existing software did", you're mainly talking Final Draft, so, for reference, this is how the Final Draft manual explains what Final Draft does:
      Originally posted by The Final Draft manual
      When a paragraph is empty, typing the Tab key changes the element type of the paragraph to the next element in the Tab transition cycle. The cycle goes from scene heading, to action, to character, to transition and back to scene heading again. Another cycle goes from dialogue to parenthetical and back.

      If a paragraph is not empty, and the insertion point is at the end of the text, typing Tab is the same as pressing Enter/Return... case of a character.
      Fade In does sort of the same thing. Here is the Fade In behavior as per the online help:
      Originally posted by Fade In's online help
      Pressing Tab on an empty line will change the current element to the specified alternate element. Pressing Enter will drop down to a new element of the specified next element type. (Note that pressing Tab at the end of a non-empty line is generally treated the same as Enter, to advance to the next element.)
      The one caveat is that in order to mimic expected behaviour, pressing Tab at the end of a Character element will give you a Parenthetical. This is hard-coded currently (and not ideal that it's hard-coded).

      Hopefully that'll maybe shed a little light on to why things behave the way they do.

      Comment


      • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

        Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
        Actually, Final Draft and MMS let you enter blank lines at will by pressing Shift+Enter, while double-clicking Enter brings up a styles or elements menu with quick shortcuts; I find this preferable, but we've spoken about this before and I think the developer of Fade In feels strongly that the way Fade In currently works is better
        Well, honestly I don't have a particularly religious opinion one way or the other.

        Currently, yes, the software allows you to enter multiple blank lines to space things out (and will optionally flag them if you check the script for errors). That decision was made to allow greater formatting/layout flexibility for the writer, but there are strong arguments against it - the main one being that for the most part, blank lines are rare in a finished screenplay.

        So, while some writers may tend to litter their working scripts with plenty of separation space as they go, it's conceivable to think of preventing that, or at least changing what a blank-line Enter does (making someone who wants to insert empty lines do it another way). A fair proposal, but then the question arises as to what behaviour to use instead. Here's where I've heard different ideas from different users:

        Some people like the idea of an element popup à la Final Draft and Movie Magic Screenwriter.

        Some people like the idea of double-Enter giving a Scene Heading (as, I believe, Celtx does? I don't have it handy to check.)

        Some people like the idea of it going to another element in a progression - i.e., hitting Enter after Dialogue will give another Character element, but hitting double-Enter will give an Action element.

        Some people like the idea of it not doing anything, to constrain layout to a "proper" template.

        I'm sure there are at least one or two more that I'm forgetting.

        So it's not unreasonable to think that this behavior might changed, but it would probably be best to come up with a clear way to customize it. The "clear" is, as you can surely guess, the tricky part.

        Oh, and Fade In does allow you currently to enter blank lines with Shift+Enter, but these are "soft returns", i.e., part of the current element or paragraph, whereas straight Enter is a "hard return" to end the current paragraph/element and create a new one. This is a semantic and technical difference that does have some effect on how layout is handled, and the overall notion is largely stolen from MS Word.

        Anyway, hope some of that helps/clarifies. I'd be happy to hear input on how to make this whole aspect of things more useful.

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        • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

          @FadeInPro: oh, so the Tab "bug" isn't a bug at all, it's a design choice. I didn't know Final Draft had this constraint too; Movie Magic, which is what I was used to, was different in this regard, and that's why I expected a different result after customizing what Tab should do in the Dialogue element.

          On the extra blank lines matter, it's true there are probably a lot of different opinions. What I suggested is the possibility to switch this feature off at will, so the functionality would still be there for those who want it. I'd love a styles menu like in Final Draft, but that's a different matter. And it really isn't a must-have feature for me. I admit I was nitpicking in both cases.

          If I could choose which feature should be improved next in Fade In, that'd be the normal view. Dark background in both sides of the page, and top and bottom margins of each page removed at page-breaks, so that the text is continuous with only a dim line to signal a page-break.

          What kind of upgrade would Fade In need to go through to start with version 2.x.x? And does new version equal new license, as with FD and MMS? Thanks for answering our questions and doubts here.

          Comment


          • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

            Well, just because it's not a bug per se doesn't mean it can't still be improved. That is something that's on the list to be looked at for improvement/clarification/flexibility.

            Additional view options are also on the list of things to look at as version 2 develops.

            Speaking of version 2, it's in the works now and will likely be released in beta (or at least alpha) fairly shortly.

            It's actually hugely different (meaning better-stronger-faster) under the hood, but on the surface v2 won't look all that different, at least not at first. In fact, the real goal is to have the initial beta release of v2 behave almost identically to v1.2 - if it can hit that mark out of the gate, I'll consider it a huge success. In keeping with the way Fade In has been developed so far, features will be developed and added on an ongoing basis instead of all at once. The current v2 re-architecting is intended to make a lot of planned work possible.

            It'll be a free update.

            Comment


            • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

              Just for the record, and I will speak in generalities that do not mean a lot, I like the way that Fade In works. I think it is a superb program, and I am now recommending it to everyone.

              I think it is great to add some features ... but, please, do not go and change the basics. Just make new options for people who want changes.

              Just noting a couple of things from my personal perspective:

              I use the "Light" interface instead of the default. I am not a great fan of glitzy designs that use thin white fonts on a black background, or anything like that. I never liked that look in magazines, and I do not like it in software. So I use the Light interface and get gray borders. If anything, I would like to see some color in the interface, not the stark black-white contrast.

              PROBLEMS

              1. Mouse clicks and focus.
              When you use the mouse to change the element style by clicking on a new style in the list of element styles, the focus stays in the list; it does not revert to the editing window. By contrast, Final Draft flips the focus back to the editing window when you choose a new element from its dropdown list.

              I am not in favor of going to a dropdown list like Final Draft has. I prefer a list of styles à la Microsoft Word. And that is what you have now in Fade In. However, I am not religious about this, either. In screenwriting, you do not have to change styles as often as you do in other document formatting, so using a dropdown list is no great impediment to ease of production.
              2. How a New File Starts Up
              This is really just an issue, not a problem.

              Because I do some writing for the stage, I have added some styles to my default screenwriting template. No problem there. I love the fact that Fade In lets you do this. (It is still a screenwriting template, but by having some additional tags on paragraphs, I can later apply a stage-play template.)

              When I open a new file with my default template, one of the added styles ("Section End") is the style in use on the first line of the script. For what it is worth, the "Section End" style is at the bottom of the first column in the list of element styles. (I have a total of 14 styles: the 8 from Fade In + 6 that I have added.)

              This is no real problem, of course, since I just change the style to something else. But I have to wonder why the opening of a file does not default to Action (for left-aligned FADE IN) or Scene Heading.

              For those who might be interested, the "Section End" is what I use for things like END OF ACT or END OF SCENE in a stage play (neither of which really has to be used).



              "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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              • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                @FadeInPro: that all sounds great. I really hope you're taking a good chunk of the screenwriting software market, because of the great quality of Fade In and because of your very active development and constant attention to user feedback.

                @ComicBent: if I understand correctly problem #2, what you need to do is save the template with the first line set in the style you'd like to begin with. For a while, I had a screenwriting template that would open with the words FADE IN: already on the page followed by a blank Scene Heading. You've probably saved your template after defining the custom style Section End, so that was the style set for the first paragraph at the time. Just open the template, change the style to Action or Scene Heading, and save again. That should do it.

                I prefer the Light theme, same as you. It's easier on the eyes and it just looks nicer.

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                • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                  You've probably saved your template after defining the custom style Section End, so that was the style set for the first paragraph at the time. Just open the template, change the style to Action or Scene Heading, and save again. That should do it.
                  That's a good thought, Dr. V.

                  I will try it later today and let you know.

                  "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                    I have the demo version now and was playing around with it to see if I want the Pro version. But I've run into problems.

                    When I go to the next scene (INT. or EXT. or whatever) it seems to triple-space from the previous line instead of double-space.
                    The action scenes automatically double space when I hit enter for the next paragraph, but new scenes seem to triple-space.

                    Is this normal?

                    Also, I'm getting between 50 - 52 lines per page (including blank lines). Is this standard for scripts?

                    Thanks.
                    Last edited by iknownuffin; 05-14-2014, 03:17 PM.
                    PuppyTummy.com

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                    • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                      Originally posted by iknownuffin View Post
                      I have the demo version ... But I've run into problems.

                      When I go to the next scene (INT. or EXT. or whatever) it seems to triple-space from the previous line instead of double-space.

                      Is this normal?

                      Also, I'm getting between 50 - 52 lines per page (including blank lines). Is this standard for scripts?

                      Thanks.
                      The issue of one blank space (double spacing) or two blank spaces (triple spacing) ABOVE a Scene Heading is a matter of preference.

                      You can choose to use double spacing if you want:

                      Format > Element Styles > Modify Element Style ...
                      From there you will easily see how to select Scene Heading and make adjustments.
                      If you do not want to make this adjustment to every script, you can save your new settings as a template:

                      File > Templates > Save As Template
                      Name the template something that is easy for you to remember. I use MyScreenplay for my own template.
                      To make the new template your default:

                      Edit > Preferences > General
                      You will see how to choose your preferred template as the default. It is all very easy, once you know where to look, and I have told you that.
                      As for the number of lines per page, the important things are: (1) Number of lines per inch. Fade In prints out with the standard number of lines per inch. (2) Top and bottom Page Margins. Top and bottom are fine in Fade In.

                      One change that I made was to change the L/R margin settings for the page. If I remember correctly, the default was 1.25" on the left; I do not remember the right margin. I changed things for my own template, MyScreenplay.

                      MY PAGE MARGINS
                      Top: 1"
                      Left: 1.5"
                      Right: 1"
                      Bottom: 0.9"

                      Because the Element Styles indents are based on page margins, you have to tweak some of your Styles if you have tinkered with the page margins.

                      MY ELEMENT STYLES
                      Scene Heading: L = 0"; R = 0"
                      Action: L = 0"; R = 0"
                      Character: L = 2.25"; R = 0"
                      Parenthetical: L = 1.75"; R = 1.5"
                      Dialogue: L = 1"; R = 1.25"

                      Shot: L = 0"; R = 0"
                      Transition: L = 3"; R = 0"
                      (Left for Transition is not important; a Transition is right-aligned.
                      I hope I got all of those right. If not, you will quickly see what to do to make a correction.

                      Naturally, you make your margin and style changes before you save your template.
                      Last edited by ComicBent; 05-16-2014, 08:36 PM.

                      "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

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                      • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                        Thanks for the tip. I purchased the full version, working just fine so far.
                        PuppyTummy.com

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                        • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                          You'll love it, nuffin.

                          And if you discover a problem, just let Kent know about it by posting here.

                          "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                            @FadeInPro: Yesterday I updated Fade In to 1.2.474, and it's great to see the improved behavior of the bottom scroll bar in the Windows version.

                            There's something odd about the Parenthetical element in this latest version. There's more space than usual between the opening parenthesis and the first character. I've tried several Courier fonts and all showed the same extra space. Activating Show Invisibles doesn't show any invisible character between the opening parenthesis and the first character of the Parenthetical paragraph. Exporting to PDF results in the same extra space between both characters in the PDF file; using a third-party PDF printer (PDFCreator) produces a PDF file with the same issue. Exporting to formatted TXT doesn't display any extra space between characters.

                            Is this a design choice or a bug? I experienced this behavior in two different computers, both running Widows 7 Ultimate 32bit.
                            Already fixed by version 1.2.476.

                            @ComicBent: Did you manage to fix the style of the first paragraph of a new document?
                            Last edited by ; 05-18-2014, 09:24 AM.

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                            • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                              Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                              There's something odd about the Parenthetical element in this latest version.
                              Yeah, that was my fault. Sorry about that. As you mentioned, it should be fixed in the latest 476.

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                              • Re: Fade In Pro -- tips, feedback, requested features

                                I've always used Scrivener while writing, but tried out Celtx, gave up on it and looked at options.

                                Downloaded FADEIN pro and liked it. It was an instant buy.
                                Something about the interface and design is just so conducive to writing a screenplay.

                                What I'd like to see is a feature to be able to re-arrange scenes by dragging sluglines around in the iphone / mobile version.

                                Regards.
                                |The DIRROGATE:Website, and Escalator pitch

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