New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

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  • figment
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by omjs View Post
    Oh, exactly - I was responding to them and echoing you. I probably should've used some quotes to make that clear.

    Basically it seemed like the other posters were looking for a private coverage service (which as you pointed out, already exists) rather than using the Blacklist for its actual purpose.

    I see so many complaints here and on other forums about BL notes not being "useful" or "constructive" enough that I thought it was worth pointing out that they're really not intended to be that in the first place.
    Gotcha.

    Leave a comment:


  • omjs
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by figment View Post
    I know -- but the posters I quoted both lamented putting something up that might not be ready, including the person that said they rarely used the BL for this reason, the other wishing for a "private reader option" which is unlikely to happen. So -- BL notes aren't going to "make it ready" imo. Best to sort that out beforehand, hence, notes from an outside source.
    Oh, exactly - I was responding to them and echoing you. I probably should've used some quotes to make that clear.

    Basically it seemed like the other posters were looking for a private coverage service (which as you pointed out, already exists) rather than using the Blacklist for its actual purpose.

    I see so many complaints here and on other forums about BL notes not being "useful" or "constructive" enough that I thought it was worth pointing out that they're really not intended to be that in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • figment
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by omjs View Post
    You have to think of BL as more like sending query letters for your script, with the added benefit that you can get a little feedback back instead of a blanket "no." If you wouldn't send it out to managers/agents/producers yet, don't put it on the Blacklist - because that's what the Blacklist is for.
    I know -- but the posters I quoted both lamented putting something up that might not be ready, including the person that said they rarely used the BL for this reason, the other wishing for a "private reader option" which is unlikely to happen. So -- BL notes aren't going to "make it ready" imo. Best to sort that out beforehand, hence, notes from an outside source.

    Leave a comment:


  • omjs
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    The Blacklist is expressly for exposure of your script, and the notes/scores are really for the industry folks who are searching for scripts, not the writer. If you're just looking for feedback, I agree that you're better off going to someone who offers development/coverage notes professionally.

    You have to think of BL as more like sending query letters for your script, with the added benefit that you can get a little feedback back instead of a blanket "no." If you wouldn't send it out to managers/agents/producers yet, don't put it on the Blacklist - because that's what the Blacklist is for.

    Leave a comment:


  • figment
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
    I totally agree. I don't mind paying hosting while the review comes back. I'd gladly spend $20-30 more for an evaluation if my script wasn't exposed through the live hosting requirement. Because right now, if you post something that isn't ready or gets assigned to a reader who is having a bad day and it gets less than a 7 or so, then harm has been done by having it exposed. I rarely use BL because of this aspect.
    If you are putting a script on the BL in order to get the reader comments/notes, then I suggest you use Titan Creed here on Done Deal for notes instead. The BL's "notes" PALE IN COMPARISON to what this guy does.

    Being a reader and a coverage/note-giver is a particular skill set, and it seems almost no one possesses it. He does. He doesn't tell you what to do, he hits you with a 2x4 to get your attention that a problem exists, and then talks to you in a way that allows you to figure it out on your own. It's effing magic.


    Originally posted by Friday View Post
    You expressed my feelings perfectly. Sometimes, you don't really want to expose your script at all, unless you're sure it's absolutely ready. With a private reader option, you can test the waters and no one will ever know unless it gets a recommend.

    I really trust the Blacklist brand, so would love to see them expand to include this option.
    Again, you might want to try Titan Creed here if it's feedback you want before putting it on the BL. His are FAR SUPERIOR comments.

    I used to do things like "trust the BL brand" too. And look, they're helping writers (and making a ton of money doing it too) and that's okay. But you only have to look at their disparate scores and (often) incredibly vague/wonky notes that don't clue you in to the real problems of a script to know that if it is feedback you are looking for, you need a coverage/note service that is WAY better than what they are offering.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crayon
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Seems like there's a need for a Gray List.

    Leave a comment:


  • Friday
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by lostfootage View Post
    I totally agree. I don't mind paying hosting while the review comes back. I'd gladly spend $20-30 more for an evaluation if my script wasn't exposed through the live hosting requirement. Because right now, if you post something that isn't ready or gets assigned to a reader who is having a bad day and it gets less than a 7 or so, then harm has been done by having it exposed. I rarely use BL because of this aspect.
    You expressed my feelings perfectly. Sometimes, you don't really want to expose your script at all, unless you're sure it's absolutely ready. With a private reader option, you can test the waters and no one will ever know unless it gets a recommend. It would also be a much faster turnaround. Hosting a script will depend on readers getting to it and it generating enough heat for producers to finally take a look. Most are too busy to be scrolling through to read those scripts. In the private reader system, as soon as a reader recommends it, the producers will have been contacted to see if they want to look at the script. A producer/manager would probably look at a script a lot quicker if they get notified of a recommend. I really trust the Blacklist brand, so would love to see them expand to include this option.

    Leave a comment:

  • lostfootage
    Member

  • lostfootage
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by Friday View Post
    I wish Blacklist would have a private reader option for people that don't want to expose their scripts that way. A private reader evaluates the script, maybe at a higher cost. If they "recommend," then the recommend is immediately given to the producers and managers on the site. But, if it's not ready, then no harm done. If you ended with a 5, I wouldn't want that out there or have been out there.
    I totally agree. I don't mind paying hosting while the review comes back. I'd gladly spend $20-30 more for an evaluation if my script wasn't exposed through the live hosting requirement. Because right now, if you post something that isn't ready or gets assigned to a reader who is having a bad day and it gets less than a 7 or so, then harm has been done by having it exposed. I rarely use BL because of this aspect.

    Leave a comment:

  • ClintW3
    Regular

  • ClintW3
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    From the Black List FAQ:

    I got a low score on my evaluation. Am I completely screwed?

    Answer:
    You're not. Your evaluations are only made visible to our industry professional membership if you choose to make them visible. You can hide any of them at any time. Moreover, our algorithm will make our industry professional members aware of any script that receives a single high rating from a reader, even if the average isn't necessarily high. We've designed the site explicitly to "do no harm," and this is exactly why.
    Lastly, it should be mentioned that, evaluating scripts is an inherently subjective endeavor. It's entirely possible another reviewer may feel differently about your script. It may just be polarizing material. You should think seriously about whether that reader is likely to be an outlier, and if you feel like they are, we encourage you to purchase another read to bear that out.
    Multiple low scores are likely an indication that the script is not likely to find success via the Black List site. In that case, we encourage you to remove your script from our site, though it is entirely your prerogative.

    Leave a comment:


  • Friday
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    I wish Blacklist would have a private reader option for people that don't want to expose their scripts that way. A private reader evaluates the script, maybe at a higher cost. If they "recommend," then the recommend is immediately given to the producers and managers on the site. But, if it's not ready, then no harm done. If you ended with a 5, I wouldn't want that out there or have been out there.

    Leave a comment:

  • cvolante
    Member

  • cvolante
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    I have had positive experiences in the past with generally consistent scores and useful comments, but since January a) it's taking more than 3 weeks to get a paid review b) the reviews on two different scripts have varied WILDLY and c) the two reviews that were particularly wildly off from the other reviews seemed just uncharacteristic of previous "voice" I've received in Blacklist reviews. Anyone else having weird experiences?

    Leave a comment:

  • FoxHound
    Member

  • FoxHound
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Given how terrible my latest reader logline was, I would actually have preferred a computer read over and assign me a random score.

    Leave a comment:

  • ComicBent
    Member

  • ComicBent
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    I assume that the *facepalm* is because of the following apparently overlooked statement?

    ------> That means if you programmed a computer to arbitrarily assign every script a five, that computer would be within two points of the human reader 88.4% of the time.

    Leave a comment:

  • Reagan
    New User

  • Reagan
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    *facepalm*

    Leave a comment:

  • JoeBanks
    Member

  • JoeBanks
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by Reagan View Post
    I know it's been two years since this post was written and I apologize if the point I'm about to make has already been made, but I've only recently started learning about The Black List and I think these numbers need to be put into perspective.

    It would be very impressive for readers to be within two points of each other if scores were evenly distributed from the 1-10 scale, with roughly 10% receiving each number, but they're not. Reader scores have a bell-curve distribution. If we look over the 2013 stats, we find this distribution:
    82 472 1022 1781 2258 2011 1288 460 83 2
    That means 0.02% of scripts got a ten and 23.9% -- almost one in four -- got a five.

    Here's yet another way to look at it: 88.4% of scripts scored in the three to seven range. That means if you programmed a computer to arbitrarily assign every script a five, that computer would be within two points of the human reader 88.4% of the time. It wouldn't have quite the same internal reliability as the average Black List reader, but it would be pretty close.
    No, because a truly random distribution (which I think is what you're implying about programming a computer) would assign "10" much more frequently than .02%, which is how often the human readers give that score.

    Leave a comment:

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