New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

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    FranklinLeonard
    Member

  • FranklinLeonard
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by CColoredClown View Post
    Is the quick turnaround for evaluations still going on?
    Evaluation turnaround will always depend on the relationship between our capacity to provide them and the demand for them from writers. We increased our capacity dramatically with the increase in price and consequent increase in reader pay, and demand has stayed roughly the same.

    So right now, turnaround is faster than it was, say, three months ago. If demand spikes, it will again slow. We still provide you a free month of hosting if it extends longer than 3 weeks.

    Leave a comment:

  • CColoredClown
    Member

  • CColoredClown
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Is the quick turnaround for evaluations still going on?

    Leave a comment:

  • Strangerthanfiction
    User

  • Strangerthanfiction
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Oh, Ed Fury. I'm only a few pages in, and already it was a mistake to dunk. The writing... Oh my... I wish I could go Neon Demon, and devour this writer, consume his talent.

    Leave a comment:


  • EdFury
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by Strangerthanfiction View Post
    Thank you Foxhound. My afternoon shall consist of digestive biscuits, tea, and reading said script.
    You will not be sorry. It's spectacular. And finally getting made.

    Leave a comment:

  • Strangerthanfiction
    User

  • Strangerthanfiction
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Thank you Foxhound. My afternoon shall consist of digestive biscuits, tea, and reading said script.

    Leave a comment:


  • Goliath
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Back to topic.. can someone tell me if the writing partnerships like symbolic exchange are open to non-US writers? Some don't state explicitly so.

    Leave a comment:

  • ComicBent
    Member

  • ComicBent
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    This thread is more fun and interesting than anything on TV.

    Leave a comment:

  • FoxHound
    Member

  • FoxHound
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    Anyway, is there any real examples of BL changing their life. Not a workshop set up through BL. An 8, 9 or 10 which simply led to... Ah, what's the use. I give up. Do it or don't. I have no skin in the game.
    Sticking to my original point. I've yet to hear about an 8 / 9 / 10 script that was ACTUALLY good leading nowhere. A lot of 8's are given by readers who just happened to connect with the material. And give it a high score. It's highly subjective / a crapshoot. Pro downloaders will not always agree with his/her assessment.

    A truly good / great script gets everybody excited. For eg. I'm, not a noir, crime or fantasy fan, but after reading A Killing on Carnival Row, I and 99% of other people said: "Jesus Christ that was ****ing awesome." Just the first page would literally land you a CAA agent.

    There's a .00001% chance you'll write a script like that (sorry), but that's what you need to write to get the killer success you're expecting. Now that I think about it, I doubt the BL 2.0 ever even reviewed a script as good as Carnival Row.

    Leave a comment:

  • UpandComing
    Member

  • UpandComing
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    If it were unveiled who was really downloading the scripts BL would be dropped like those old query level services. It's a bunch of people with no more juice then most of us here. Do you know how many people out there say they are producers or are starting a management agency? It's the same people trolling craigslist for scripts but never give their name and are more likely to steal a good idea/pitch then help make it. The very same. That is why no testimonials.
    Actually, there have been several managers and agents at prominent firms who've indicated that they're members of the Black List. All you have to do is listen to interviews on podcasts like Scripts and Scribes or Chicks Who Script to know this, or read various written interviews. This fact has also been evidenced through articles about new representations and options published in Deadline and other trade publications. It's not very surprising that this is the case; the BL already had an established brand name in Hollywood. So the fact that there is so much information out there and yet you are so unaware shows you are just talking out of your ***.

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    Success here is someone happy they got representation but nothing happened whatsoever to further them. Success here is someone saying they spoke to an exec' on the phone or took a couple of meetings but nothing happened whatsoever. Success here is someone getting a little option money but the script wasn't produced and they can sometimes email the producer who has moved on to other projects and isn't taking them with him/her.
    There are tens of thousands of people trying to break into screenwriting each year. The vast majority of them aren't good enough, and even among the ones who are, there are other issues factoring into a decision not to represent or option, such as a pro's tastes or how they perceive the marketability of your script. You make it seem like getting repped or optioned is no big deal, but it is still an extremely hard thing to do. And getting some kind of huge option or sale is even harder (much harder than a few years ago).

    You hosted your script and got 4s/5s. Those aren't good scores. You managed to get a number of downloads, probably because of interest in your logline. This shows that the Black List provides SOME value, because again, you got low scores. You didn't hear back from the people who downloaded your script. This could be because they didn't like it personally. But it could also mean that your script wasn't as good as you thought it was, because again, you got low scores. Either way, the Black List allowed you to get reads from people who might have just ignored you otherwise. It has no control over whether those people like your script or get back to you, so it's silly to blame them because that didn't happen. It also smacks of extreme bitterness to say that there must be something wrong with its membership because no one got back to you. A friendly reminder: you got low scores.

    It sounds like you have very unrealistic expectations of not only the Black List, but of Hollywood in general. If your definition of success is a manager who'll be very active for a new client, or a huge sale for a relatively new writer, then guess what -- you're probably going to be waiting a very long time for success. If I were you, I would use this precious time you have not to bitch and moan about the BL, but to use alternative means of garnering attention. I've gotten several downloads for my 8 scripts, but I didn't just sit on my ass after that. I queried companies, getting reads, and entered contests, getting placements. You have to try every tool at your disposal, because you never know which is the one that's gonna break you in. There are Oscar-winning and mega-selling screenwriters who never placed in the Nicholl, and possibly wouldn't have gotten high scores on the BL. But they found their own path to success. It's just the nature of this unpredictable game.

    I hope you enjoyed venting. It sounds like you needed to do that to get some stress out of your system. After you're done with that, take a step back, take a deep breath, and try to obtain a more realistic view of what it takes to get what you want in this industry. You may just realize that it's not a good fit for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • figment
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    Small options that go nowhere is not something to tell your grandkids about or to act as a testimonial to a service. You can get the same thing on craigslist.
    Why are you depending on Craig's list or the BL when you can query prodco's on your own and then you know where your scripts are going and who is reading them?

    Quit using Craig's List -- who does that expecting real results? And quit using the BL.

    Query your own scripts.

    Leave a comment:

  • purplenurple
    User

  • purplenurple
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Let me set the record straight here... We are getting into the interpretation of what is success here, correct? Only on this board could we have such a conversation. If you want to be a big league ball player or fight in the UFC do you think one of those people have any difficulty defining success? Success here is someone happy they got representation but nothing happened whatsoever to further them. Success here is someone saying they spoke to an exec' on the phone or took a couple of meetings but nothing happened whatsoever. Success here is someone getting a little option money but the script wasn't produced and they can sometimes email the producer who has moved on to other projects and isn't taking them with him/her.

    Do you think a person who wants to play for the Dodgers and is an inch away only to have it fall apart thinks he is successful because he had a lot of hits in high school? No, he wants to play pro ball, but now works in an assembly line. Is a fighter who trains to be in the UFC for years but never has a pro fight a great success because one time a big coach showed him/her a favorite submission hold? A hold that will never be used in a fight.

    I'm moving on here because now I'm arguing philosophical and everyone is different in terms of their thoughts on writing. However, make no mistake in the world of pro athletes those men/women have very strong thoughts of success and I think a lot like that so getting a manager that never lifts a finger for you or gets you one meeting as a courtesy is not something to brag about. Small options that go nowhere is not something to tell your grandkids about or to act as a testimonial to a service. You can get the same thing on craigslist.

    Leave a comment:

  • sallain
    Regular

  • sallain
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    I would say my definition of success is simply being paid to work your passion...If your idea of success is getting representation but not working as a paid screenwriter, then we differ. I do not define success as being only a top paid screenwriter but someone who makes a comfortable living doing it and a few solid film credits.
    No one can guarantee this for you. The screenwriting biz is excruciatingly difficult, even after you've "made it." Highly competitive, completely unstable and unpredictable, etc. etc. Relatively few people ever achieve your idea of "success" and this is something that the Black List never promised and cannot attain for you. No one can. The Black List is merely a service that facilitates introductions to industry players, which is what most of us want and are very grateful to have.

    Basically what EdFury said.

    Leave a comment:

  • UnequalProductions
    Member

  • UnequalProductions
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
    I did BL. I think I got a 5 the first time or maybe it was a 4. The reader had some good suggestions. I retooled the script and hacked off well over 10 pages then paid for submission again with a better, streamlined script and got a 4. Drove me crazy because it was the same score ( or off by 1) of the other draft. I thought I'd get at least a 7. BUT that wasn't the weird part. The weird part is I got several downloads. Much more the second time. For the life of me who in the world would ever download to read a 4?! I wanted to know. Not out of hope but the sheer strangeness of it because it made little sense. I think when it was a 5, I got maybe 3 pro downloads, but when it was a 4, I got more then twice that - maybe even a lot more. I forgot. That script was then optioned not through BL (never heard from those people), but through a query. I would not call it a success because I'm on this board raging about BL and how I'm pretty sure there's a lot more bottom feeders downloading then anyone would like to believe.
    Wait, so you got random spurts of attention from people who you don't quite know their standing in the industry that sometimes didn't seem to have any connection to the actual quality of the material?

    Seems like the BL is preparing you for actual Hollywood...

    Leave a comment:

  • purplenurple
    User

  • purplenurple
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    I would say my definition of success is simply being paid to work your passion. I've had agents, quite a few options and even once got 2500.00 on a writing gig. BUT I am still at my day job after all these years and no closer then I was 5 years ago to getting a serious career or a script sale. In fact I was closer 10 years ago despite my writing better now. If your idea of success is getting representation but not working as a paid screenwriter, then we differ. I do not define success as being only a top paid screenwriter but someone who makes a comfortable living doing it and a few solid film credits.

    I did BL. I think I got a 5 the first time or maybe it was a 4. The reader had some good suggestions. I retooled the script and hacked off well over 10 pages then paid for submission again with a better, streamlined script and got a 4. Drove me crazy because it was the same score ( or off by 1) of the other draft. I thought I'd get at least a 7. BUT that wasn't the weird part. The weird part is I got several downloads. Much more the second time. For the life of me who in the world would ever download to read a 4?! I wanted to know. Not out of hope but the sheer strangeness of it because it made little sense. I think when it was a 5, I got maybe 3 pro downloads, but when it was a 4, I got more then twice that - maybe even a lot more. I forgot. That script was then optioned not through BL (never heard from those people), but through a query. I would not call it a success because I'm on this board raging about BL and how I'm pretty sure there's a lot more bottom feeders downloading then anyone would like to believe.

    Leave a comment:

  • glantern2814
    User

  • glantern2814
    replied
    Re: New Black List Thread - Franklin Leonard answers your questions

    Define success, Purple. I got a rep after scoring a 9 on the BL, something I never was able to do before that despite advancing in contests like Disney and Austin. So, I'd consider that a success. I didn't ultimately sell or option that script, but it did go out to some high-profile companies, something it might not have done without being repped. So, you might consider that a failure. But I'm not sure that lands on the BL's shoulders.

    I'm curious, you said you posted a couple of scripts on the BL. What scores did you get? What did the evaluations say? (I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious, not trying to pick a fight or anything -- I have no skin in the game either.)

    Leave a comment:

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