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  • Done Deal Pro Site

    Since feedback and development is important to screenwriters, wouldn't it be wise and attractive to inform new members, or people finding this site when they google a screenwriting topic that the DDP site offers additional forums, such as, "Loglines and Query Letters," Script Pages Feedback" and "Story Development," but they must register and sign in to view them and post material?

    I suggest not to post this information in the "Welcome" heading where it could be lost and go unnoticed. This information would be bolded and placed in a separate heading.

    This lets new and inquiring people know this site is more than just chitchat on the craft and business of screenwriting.

    Also, there are professional readers who have their services stickied at the top of this thread's list page for however long this site stays open for business, so, if they're not paying for this prime advertising, would it be too much to ask them if they could please volunteer their service to read one script a year to a winner of in an in-house contest, such as, one pro reader could read and review the script of the best logline winner, another could read and review the script of the best opening 5 pages winner.

    If there are 4 participating pro readers, the in-house contests could be twice a year on this two contests. One held every three months.

    Maybe three professional industry people, who are DDP members, would volunteer to be judges. If not, the members could be judges, but they can't vote for their own work.

    Maybe in the Logline contest only, members could select the top three and Will, or a volunteer could contact agents, managers and producers to inform them about the DDP site and its membership, mentioning the in-house contest and that we're inquiring if they would judge the winner of the top three.

    This could be a way to build a new road to break into the industry.

    The site could have a link in the directory for a "Wall of Congratulations" that list all past and present DDP members, such as, James V. Simpson (Dues), Gary Whitta, Hamboogle, etc. who have gone from non-pro to professional writers. It'll give the site some cache with non-pro writers looking for help and with the Industry.
    Last edited by JoeNYC; 07-03-2019, 07:42 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Done Deal Pro Site

    There is a sticky post on this topic and has been for quite awhile here: http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ad.php?t=55000

    It's been viewed nearly 12,000 times. Maybe everyone hasn't seen it, but quite a few have.

    When people subscribe to the site the "welcome" e-mail they receive mentions the forums at least. Now, how "overtly" these hidden forums all need to be pointed out in that email is a little debatable I feel. There is overlap with subscribers & forum users, but most of the main site subscribers seem to have a different focus.

    Unless info about the hidden forums for registered users only is in the WELCOME text for visitors, there isn't some super convenient or "smooth" way to note all this. I'd rather not create a sub-form to simply point them out. That seems a bit much for one post to be isolated. Yes? And I don't think thousands of people are trying by, looking at our site and dismissing registering because they don't see feed back forums. Maybe there are a few but not a number probably worth bothering about. There are more than enough members as if to use those forums, and not everyone is so I don't think there would be some huge influx if I added a little note up at the top.

    In terms of pro readers volunteering there time to do and manage all that, I'll leave that up to them to chime in. Not sure if they have the time. Personally, I don't have the time to run a contest. I"m not the busiest man in show biz, but I got more than enough to worry about. (I helped someone quite a few years ago with a contest and it gets time consuming, even when fairly straightforward.)

    All are nice enough thoughts you brought up, so don't get me wrong. But this whole site is still in many ways an ongoing, part-time side venture for me. And there are many other avenues for writers to try already. I don't think our jumping into the fray is really going to move the needle in relative to the effort it would take.
    Will
    Done Deal Pro
    www.donedealpro.com

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    • #3
      Re: Done Deal Pro Site

      Originally posted by Done Deal Pro View Post
      There is a sticky post on this topic and has been for quite awhile here:

      I don't think thousands of people are trying by, looking at our site and dismissing registering because they don't see feed back forums.

      In terms of pro readers volunteering there time to do and manage all that, I'll leave that up to them to chime in. Not sure if they have the time.
      I've been here for over ten years and I never noticed that "Logline," etc. forums' sticky in the "Announcement" forum. The "Announcement" forum is like South Dakota. Nobody goes there.

      I didn't realize that there would be a technical issue to just add another heading on the message board page. I do think there are enough visitors to make some type of an effort to retain them.

      Every now and then DDP gets mentions on podcasts, twitter, etc. When a screenwriter wants to google something about screenwriting, such as, "high concept and low concept," a link of the DDP message board comes up on Google's first page. That DDP thread has 2,000 views. This can't all be DDP members. A good portion are visitors.

      Don't underestimate the value of the "Logline" and "Pages" forum. Feedback is important to writers. I think if these forums' availability were more front and center and known how helpful they were to get a writer to really SEE their work, where they can make it stronger, it would retain more visitors, but keeping the step to sign in to view the forums.

      (In the past, I did try to get a forum to post completed scripts for review, but DDP said it wasn't technically possible.)

      The contests' idea was just for the DDP members. Not open word wide. The Cyfress vs. Jeff Lowell contest got a lot of interest, where the activity jumped, so I thought a logline and an opening five pages' contests would also generate interest, causing more activity.

      Also, the Cyfress contest was presented and completed without a hitch... with the exception of DDP losing Cyfress. Nobody can take constructive criticism anymore.

      Cyfress, wherever you are -- COME BACK!

      Contests are great. Writers love contests. The practical reason is that if they did well it gives them validation and confidence. If they didn't do well, it shows them they have more work to do, or move onto another concept/script. This could save them a year of writing the wrong script.

      A side benefit is the fact that writers have huge egos. They'd love a shot at scoring the bragging rights to owning Number 1. Of course, on the outside they'll be humble about it, but inside they're dancing the jig.

      As for the pro readers, who's services have a sticky on the top of the thread page, where they may not have the time to volunteer to review the winners' screenplay, please, don't make excuses for them. If they can't put aside a few hours ONCE a year to help us out and review the winner's script, then unstick their sticky.

      I've seen the site's active viewers slip from 300 to around 180 (lower now because of summer vacation). I was just trying to come up with some ideas to retain and add members.
      Last edited by JoeNYC; 07-03-2019, 01:43 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Done Deal Pro Site

        Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
        Don't underestimate the value of the "Logline" and "Pages" forum. Feedback is important to writers. I think if these forums' availability were more front and center and known how helpful they were to get a writer to really SEE their work, where they can make it stronger, it would retain more visitors, but keeping the step to sign in to view the forums.
        I'm more than aware of writers needing feedback, of course. People voted some time ago to hide the forums to protect their work and ideas. I simply made that happen. If people don't care any more I can unhide them. But you can't have both, really.

        That said, I have turned off HIDING the forum, but left "hiding" on for the posts & threads for now. That will at least show they are there. Does that seem better to you?
        Last edited by Done Deal Pro; 07-03-2019, 06:11 PM.
        Will
        Done Deal Pro
        www.donedealpro.com

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        • #5
          Re: Done Deal Pro Site

          feedback and story development is important to writers— true. that’s why this forum exists.

          it costs nothing to register (correct me if i'm wrong). if someone can’t take the time to register, i don’t see them as someone who really is looking for a new resource to their writing toolbox. writers serious about their craft see the value of DDP and register.

          the stickies for professional readers are there at the convenience for the membership. i think it’s presumptuous to ask anyone to provide their services for free. they themselves may feel different. i believe some of them already offer a discount to the membership. i’m fine with that. and the fact that they have a sticky, i don’t believe, was at their request. it was to benefit the membership.

          no one should feel pressured to “donate” their services. the membership has posted their recommendations based on paying for their services. that’s a choice we make and it’s not “free advertising” to have someone give you a free review of your work. it’s earned, imo. someone could just as easily post a poor review and the service provider would have nothing to say about it.

          if someone wants to run a logline contest go for it. start a thread like Southern_Land did. you can offer the winner “coverage” by one of the professional readers on the board. Southern_Land did that and paid for it out of his own pocket. that was one of the reasons i entered that contest (i believe there were 5 of us) to try to win the coverage. now i know that Titan Creed provides really great service and i’l use him in the future.

          instead of offering up that Will or someone else from the membership call agents and managers on behalf of the winner of the logline, consider what that would look like if YOU (anyone) offered to do it. you could provide this service yourself, right? having just finished verifying 600 contacts for managers, producers, and agents, i can tell you it’s very time consuming.

          i would be remiss if i didn’t offer a caution, just because someone wins a logline contest, does not mean their project is ready to be sent out to the industry, or even of any quality. all it means it that one person (out of a very small pool) decided that logline was good and thought their screenplay would be good, too.

          writing a well constructed logline is not proof (at all) that you have written, or can write, a pro-level script.

          contests are about reputation. no one in the industry is going to take a contest run on DDP as a valid resource for a high quality screenplay based on winning a logline contest. it would be great to get membership up, but the only way that membership will increase, is if more members contribute to the forums. that’s what it takes.

          btw, hats off to Southern_Land for the contest, i benefited greatly from it.
          FA4

          Will, i think unhiding them but still making them private was a good idea. i would not vote for them to be open to the general public.
          "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist,- Pablo Picasso

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          • #6
            Re: Done Deal Pro Site

            Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
            i think it’s presumptuous to ask anyone to provide their services for free.
            This opinion pisses me off.

            You, finalact4, may consider it asking for a "free read," but I believe DDP paid them in full with past years of free advertising and with continued years of free advertising.

            DDP gave them access and a platform to its members. You say, "well, they never asked for it." Sure, but it would be nice if they could show some appreciation anyway. It ain't like we're asking for the Moon.

            What is wrong with asking them if they would help out the site by volunteering ONCE a year to read and review a winning member's script for a contest idea to generate activity and new membership?

            Because you believe it's "presumptuous"? You're offended that I have the "audacity" to even ask this of them? finalact4, have you ever heard of the phrase: "If you don't ask, you don't get"?

            I asked DDP to make the feedback forums more visible, but keep it private. DDP listened and made it happen. Thank you, DDP.

            finalact4, I don't have a problem with asking pro readers, who advertise their services on the site, or pro readers who don't, if they would offer a free read as a prize for a contest for a screenwriting site that has 200 active members.

            Don't you think that maybe one of these pro readers would agree because they think it would be a good way to get their name and service out there, drumming up goodwill where when DDP members go looking for a service to get feedback, they're gonna remember the generosity of this pro reader and choose him out of the hundreds of other pro readers?

            finalact4, your defeatist attitude toward my ideas is bumming me out, man. I need to grab a doughnut and get some sugar in my blood so I can be -- happy again.
            Last edited by JoeNYC; 07-03-2019, 06:15 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Done Deal Pro Site

              I do think it's probably a smart idea to show these other forums but leave them marked as private. I don't really want my pages visible to anyone who s/trolls along.

              As for the contest I think the most that would be gained from it is someone getting free notes. I can't imagine agents/managers would care. Truthfully, my ex didn't bother reading Nicholl winners. None. Ever. All her clients came byway of manager/producer/publisher... on a silver platter.

              Oh and... that's a tough ask: asking a writer to pass something along to their reps to read something that ain't their own stuff. I've honestly never read something I'd feel comfortable passing on to my reps. One of my very close writer/director friends asked me to pass something to my ex for representation consideration. I did. She never read it. Passed based on the longline. I knew she wasn't going to read it before I sent it.

              I do appreciate writers trying to look out for other writers tho.

              Now, if there's some showrunners here looking to staff up, I'd be glad to throw one of my scripts into the competitive pile.
              Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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              • #8
                Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                Will, is there a phone app for the main site? And if not how would I go about making one?


                Hey! You might do it in your house, but in this house we don't lick our butts. -- Mother Teresa

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                • #9
                  Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                  Originally posted by finalact4 View Post
                  contests are about reputation. no one in the industry is going to take a contest run on DDP as a valid resource for a high quality screenplay based on winning a logline contest.
                  You don't think much about this site, do you, finalact4?

                  Do you know how many non-pros, who became professional writers, were members on this site. A good many started as newbies, where they learned the craft, created and honed their loglines and scripts using insights and feedback from members.

                  The "reputation" that you speak of is what I was wanting to build with the "Wall of Congratulations" suggestion.

                  Oh, and the comment about no industry person will give a rat's ass about a logline from a DDP contest is again just accepting defeat without even trying. You don't think if there was a unique, high concept logline that would make people go -- WOW!, every single person working in the industry would ignore it -- because DDP is not, according to you, a "valid source"?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                    Originally posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
                    As for the contest I think the most that would be gained from it is someone getting free notes.
                    I believe there's more value to a writer entering a logline contest than just a shot at winning free notes. It gives an opportunity to let a writer know how weak or strong his concept is.

                    I was thinking a logline could be rated on a scale of 1-10 by members on two components:

                    Construction, which would represent a logline's: elements, structure, word choices, clarity, if it's over or underwritten, etc.

                    Concept: it's commercial potential.

                    The writer who receives the highest average of the combined two scores is the winner, but ALL the other writers win something also by seeing how weak or strong their concept and construction is perceived, where they could act accordingly.

                    I was thinking a logline contest could be held toward the end of September, or October. So, members, keep this in mind, where you could participate by either entering a logline, which would be in a private forum, or being part of the judging.

                    I'd be willing to reach out to professional readers, both who are stickied on this services' forum page and those readers who are not and who offer an affordable service, informing them who we are, contest, etc. and if they would be interested to offer their service as a prize.

                    I'll post a list of services who agreed and didn't agree.

                    I suggest and encourage any members who will be seeking a professional reader to review their script to select one of the services who offered to volunteer their time and energy as a prize to a contest.

                    Yes, finalact4, I know you're gonna ignore my suggestion and select whoever you want. From reading your opinions in your posts, that's a given.
                    Last edited by JoeNYC; 07-04-2019, 04:59 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                      Originally posted by GucciGhostXXX View Post
                      Oh and... that's a tough ask: asking a writer to pass something along to their reps to read something that ain't their own stuff.
                      I don't understand this quoted statement. I never asked writers to pass a winner's logline or script to their reps.

                      I did say, in general, to maybe reaching out to agents, managers and producers to ask if they would judge the winner from the finalists. I see sometimes industry people volunteering to judge loglines on other sites and podcasts.

                      I did say, maybe send out a query e-mail to agents, managers and producers with Done Deal Pro in the subject line (if Will agrees, but don't worry, Will, I'm not gonna ask).

                      Sure, a Done Deal Pro contest mention won't carry any weight because it isn't known about how many Done Deal members have gone on to become working professionals, but I'm hoping that would change by making the successes known.

                      Besides, if the logline is truly a winner and connects with the industry person, the contest mention won't matter.

                      GucciGhostXXX mentions that agents won't even bother reading the queries. This is true. The top agents and producers won't read queries. They'll depend on referrals and the top, respected contests for writers and material, but as Jeff Lowell said, or something similar to the following: nothing wrong in taking a shot at the impossible. You never know. The impossible just may happen.

                      finalact4 points out that there's a list of 600 industry people. The queries would be sent out to a smaller group, but still, this is a daunting endeavor, so my query idea is not practical.

                      But on an individual basis, if Done Deal Pro ever does gain a reputation of being a site that's known for having a good number of members going on to being working professionals, the writer could then mention the win in a DDP contest, where now it may mean something to the industry person.

                      finalact4 referred to me as a person who's presumptuous. This is not what I think. I think I'm just a person with some gumption... and who's a serial procrastinator.
                      Last edited by JoeNYC; 07-04-2019, 05:05 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                        Originally posted by Mark Somers View Post
                        Will, is there a phone app for the main site? And if not how would I go about making one?
                        There is not and I don't know quite enough about apps to even start. What really needs to be done and I have had on my "list of things-to-do" for some time, is completely rebuild the main site and give it a nice make over. Make it really mobile friendly, a fresh & more modern UI and UX, additional features, etc. That just takes a lot of money to do though. But always on my mind.
                        Will
                        Done Deal Pro
                        www.donedealpro.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                          Originally posted by JoeNYC View Post
                          I don't understand this quoted statement. I never asked writers to pass a winner's logline or script to their reps.

                          I did say, in general, to maybe reaching out to agents, managers and producers to ask if they would judge the winner from the finalists. I see sometimes industry people volunteering to judge loglines on other sites and podcasts.

                          I did say, maybe send out a query e-mail to agents, managers and producers with Done Deal Pro in the subject line (if Will agrees, but don't worry, Will, I'm not gonna ask).

                          Sure, a Done Deal Pro contest mention won't carry any weight because it isn't known about how many Done Deal members have gone on to become working professionals, but I'm hoping that would change by making the successes known.

                          Besides, if the logline is truly a winner and connects with the industry person, the contest mention won't matter.

                          GucciGhostXXX mentions that agents won't even bother reading the queries. This is true. The top agents and producers won't read queries. They'll depend on referrals and the top, respected contests for writers and material, but as Jeff Lowell said, or something similar to the following: nothing wrong in taking a shot at the impossible. You never know. The impossible just may happen.

                          finalact4 points out that there's a list of 600 industry people. The queries would be sent out to a smaller group, but still, this is a daunting endeavor, so my query idea is not practical.

                          But on an individual basis, if Done Deal Pro ever does gain a reputation of being a site that's known for having a good number of members going on to being working professionals, the writer could then mention the win in a DDP contest, where now it may mean something to the industry person.

                          finalact4 referred to me as a person who's presumptuous. This is not what I think. I think I'm just a person with some gumption... and who's a serial procrastinator.
                          Then I misunderstood what you were suggesting. It's not a bad idea in general, but I think it's a bit late to the party. I feel like the Blacklist (website) kinda already has the monopoly on this. It would be hella hard to compete with that at this point.

                          As for taking super long shot risks, I agree that you (we) should. I mean, everything about this industry is a super long shot.

                          I'm just surprised finalact4 was able to find 600 people who are relevant for her particular material. Even with something highly commercial I'd imagine that list to be much shorter.
                          Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                            Originally posted by Done Deal Pro View Post
                            There is not and I don't know quite enough about apps to even start. What really needs to be done and I have had on my "list of things-to-do" for some time, is completely rebuild the main site and give it a nice make over. Make it really mobile friendly, a fresh & more modern UI and UX, additional features, etc. That just takes a lot of money to do though. But always on my mind.
                            Really? I here I thought I was using an app to login on my phone.
                            Bruh, fukkin *smooches*! Feel me? Ha!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Done Deal Pro Site

                              Originally posted by Done Deal Pro View Post
                              There is not and I don't know quite enough about apps to even start. What really needs to be done and I have had on my "list of things-to-do" for some time, is completely rebuild the main site and give it a nice make over. Make it really mobile friendly, a fresh & more modern UI and UX, additional features, etc. That just takes a lot of money to do though. But always on my mind.

                              You've got the best message board software. Could use a paint job, though.

                              Your main site needs to be jazzed up, but still keep mobile friendly.

                              Come to think of it, given the high performance of phones and high speed connectivity I don't think one really needs an app ( Just be phone friendly). Your service is supplying data. If you're running php or equivalent the parsing is carried out on the server side. I'm kinda just half ass guessing this shit.

                              Here's my portfolio of jewelry work. I wrote all the html for the whole site.


                              Hey! You might do it in your house, but in this house we don't lick our butts. -- Mother Teresa

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