Good Notes Cheap

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  • #16
    Re: Good Notes Cheap

    Hi Bart. Do you have a sample page on your site showing what your notes would look like (both in quantity and quality)? thanks

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    • #17
      Re: Good Notes Cheap

      Hey Anagram. I've always preferred to send prospective clients a sample in email. Though maybe I should negotiate with a writer to be able to publicly post such a sample on the site.

      For now- drop me a line? [email protected]

      Best-

      -Bart
      - - - - - - -
      Script consulting still going strong.

      Details and updates here, as always: http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ead.php?t=9901

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      • #18
        Re: Good Notes Cheap

        Bart is a solid guy. Had notes a couple of years ago and the script was optioned... no I did not make a ton of money. But it did open a few doors... and no Bart did not pay me to say this...
        Writer / Director available for your project.

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        • #19
          Re: Good Notes Cheap

          Unlike most people, I have definite reservations about Bart's notes/feedback. Recently I sent him a fresh script since he seemed highly recommended by writers on this forum.

          I was overwhelmed by his criticism. It was unlike any evaluation/ coverage I'd ever received. (I regularly use Script Savvy and Donna White, Barb Doyan of Extreme Screenplay and Craig Kellem). In a nutshell he detested the script. His suggestions centered around not how to improve the script and clarify my intentions so much as suggesting I write an entirely different script.

          My opinion is simple: This isn't your job. Don't try to turn ALL THAT JAZZ into SOUND OF MUSIC. Or WILD BUNCH into PSYCHO.

          I knew there was something strange a foot when he said absolutely nothing positive about the script. For $139, you'd think Bart would try to find something to like. Even if it were my lack of spelling errors, or the inventive way I used periods at the end of sentences.

          There were few concrete suggestions. But many not so helpful generic ones such as the whole Third Act doesn't work and belongs to another film.

          Nevertheless I do commend Bart for remaining in contact with me and exchanging e-mails. Eventually I stopped only because our communications were non-productive. From his point of view it seemed it was a film not worth making and he felt genuinely offended by some it. And I of course disagreed. This is not a debate a script consultant and writer should have. The gulf is too vast.

          Anyway, after a month or so I sent it to another consultant and received high marks and a CONSIDER. So the lesson: Find a few script consultants who understand what you are trying to do, your tone and style and trust them instead of doing a lot of shopping around for the "perfect reader".

          I harbor no hard feelings toward Bart. I'm sure he can be very insightful and helpful....to many people. I just think readers need to constantly hone their skills in their craft as well and not be so set in their ways.

          Steve

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          • #20
            Re: Good Notes Cheap

            Stephen, it would be tempting just to sit back and let my years of experience, fairly constant stream of positive testimonials and grateful clients do the speaking.

            I, however, feel your characterization of our correspondence is off base enough that I want to respond. I did say positive things about your writing style. I never said anything about hating the script, and was not offended. I just thought you had major structural choices ahead of you, as we were discussing. If the particulars ever get posted, say in the script notes forum, I think you'll find a lot of opinions parallel mine. My notes aren't some personal advocacy on my part, they are my best effort to illuminate what the town responds to, or doesn't.

            If you're amenable, I'd be happy to post our correspondence in some new thread over in Story and let people judge it as they may.
            Last edited by ExtHollywoodDay; 08-10-2009, 10:19 AM.
            - - - - - - -
            Script consulting still going strong.

            Details and updates here, as always: http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ead.php?t=9901

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Good Notes Cheap

              Don't sweat this, Ext. My writing partner and I have used you (a few years ago.) anyway) and used others, and one thing I've discovered is that there are some others that just tell you what you wanna hear. I like you because you DON'T sugarcoat it. You should never apologize for telling it like it is.
              Last edited by Buzz2074; 08-10-2009, 01:39 AM.

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              • #22
                Re: Good Notes Cheap

                Stephen, you actually said for this money he should find something to like? Wow.
                If you want people to like your script because you paid them... wow.
                What happens when you submit to reps that you aren't paying?
                What you really want is someone to call it like they see it, whether it be paid analysts or fellow writers. The whole goal isn't to feel good, it's to improve the script. Really, the harsher, the better.

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                • #23
                  Re: Good Notes Cheap

                  congrats on the spec sale Bart.

                  what's it called, and is it going to be made?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Good Notes Cheap

                    Hmm, this is all a very interesting situation.

                    I will make this offer to Stephen ... I will read your script for free and offer my observations and notes on it. I will give you my honest opinion.

                    If interested, send it to me by email attachment in the original form (Word, Screenwriter, Final Draft, Sophocles). If it is in Mac format, I will need a PDF.

                    My procedure is to convert to Word and to make notes in the script as I read along. I also sometimes do rewrites (with Word's "Track Changes" feature) to show you how to make things better. Then I return the script to you in Word and as a PDF.

                    You should be able to click my ComicBent profile to get my email address. If you have any trouble, let me know by Private Message or here on the board.

                    "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Good Notes Cheap

                      I just had this exact disagreement with Killgore on another post. He quoted someone called Tom Lazarus (a script consultant and pro-screenwriter) who seemed to echo stephens sentiment; "Don't tell me my Romantic Comedy would be better as an Action/Thriller! Spare Me!"

                      I told him that I didn't think Mr Lazarus could be more wrong. I told Killgore that if I wrote a Romantic Comedy and a script consultant didn't think it was working, I'd want to hear that. I sent my first script to a certain woman we know on this board and that ExtHollywoodDay worked for I believe, and on the telephone conversation I had with her she enthused about my script (although it needed a load of work) and she told me that she sometimes has to tell first-time writers to chalk it up to experience but to walk away from it. Wow! You pay over your money and after an insightful, detailed lesson you're advised to move onto another project. That's not her being unfairly harsh but speaking with an immense sense of responibilty.

                      If you want a consultant who thinks that all any script needs is a little tweak here and there, then PM Killgore and check out http://www.tomlazarus.com/
                      A lovely being, scarcely formed or moulded,
                      A rose with all its sweetest leaves yet folded.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Good Notes Cheap

                        Okay- this is getting ridiculous. I've offerred to let the specifics of my notes on Stephen's script air publicly. That ball's in Stephen's court and Stephen's alone. We now have Comic willing to read the script, ostensibly to see if he thinks I was significantly off base. Comic- you get that script, I'll send you my notes on it.

                        I'd like it if everyone else would please quit speculating on it til that happens.
                        Last edited by ExtHollywoodDay; 08-10-2009, 03:29 PM.
                        - - - - - - -
                        Script consulting still going strong.

                        Details and updates here, as always: http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...ead.php?t=9901

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Good Notes Cheap

                          Originally posted by ComicBent View Post
                          Hey Comicbent...

                          Love this quote you have

                          It's like seeing in the future with binoculars--


                          ""We live in a post-literate world. The opportunities are shrinking, the competition is harder than ever before, and the ability of people to appreciate good writing over bad is disappearing." — Terry Rossio. "
                          You know what the news is. Now you're going to hear ... the rrrrest of the story!
                          Paul Harvey
                          -
                          -
                          -

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Good Notes Cheap

                            Dear Comic,

                            It would be my pleasure to send you my script and I'd be happy for Bart to post his notes. Great! I like seeing the pot stirred a little. I wasn't aware that Bart had achieved "icon" status yet, and his opinions were written in stone. Don't you guys out there trust your own creative gut instincts once in a while?

                            Thanks guys,

                            Steve

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Good Notes Cheap

                              My offer stands.

                              It was not meant to be a provocation to Bart or anyone. My purpose is to give a third opinion. I suspect we will have a third view (mine) that differs from both the first and the second opinion.

                              In my case I am not a professional script reader. But I do have a life-long interest in writing, and I have written notes (gratis) for some people on this board, on Zoetrope, and on Absolute Write. I only do it occasionally, because I do not do it professionally and, well, it is time-consuming.

                              Bart, let me do my own notes before I look at yours, if Stephen agrees to send the script.

                              Again, none of this is intended to be a challenge to anybody or a defense of anybody.

                              But this could be fun. It would be an interesting experiment just to see how different (or similar) the coverage would be from three different people.

                              ComicBent
                              [email protected]

                              "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Good Notes Cheap

                                Game on !

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