Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

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  • Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

    The trials and tribulations of getting this thing to the big screen have been well documented -- L.A. Weekly did a decent write-up about a week or two ago -- and it got me wondering:

    If you had greenlight power at Universal, would you have given the go-ahead for Ridley Scott and Brian Grazer to make this film? Keep in mind you already sunk $30 million into the aborted Antione Fuqua version thanks to play-or-pay deals.

    Now you're on the line for an estimated $100 million production and maybe another $50-80 million in P&A. (That's L.A. Weekly's estimate, not mine....)

    $180-210 million period (read: 70s) / gangster / character-driven film?

    I love Denzel and think Russell Crowe does masterful work with the right role but, frankly, this wouldn't get the thumbs up from me.

    Denzel consistently hits solid doubles and triples at the box office but hasn't had a truly massive hit in quite some time. (I thought MAN ON FIRE deserved to make way more than the $70-something it did domestically but DEJU VU was pretty much a disappointment all around.)

    Russell Crowe has proven time and again he's not a guaranteed B.O. draw.

    That said, Ridley's films -- save a real misfire like A GOOD YEAR -- always perform respectfully if not very well, as do a most of Grazer's films.

    Still, like I said, I would take a pass on this particular project.

    You?

  • #2
    Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

    of course I'd green light it and take a chance, if you can't at least THINK a triumvirate of Ridley, Denzel and Russell is going to do numbers, then just what sort of crystal ball do you have up your yazoo and is the freaking thing for sale?
    "you have to write right, right?" -- Todd Gordon

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    • #3
      Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

      Originally posted by MacG View Post
      The trials and tribulations of getting this thing to the big screen have been well documented -- L.A. Weekly did a decent write-up about a week or two ago -- and it got me wondering:

      If you had greenlight power at Universal, would you have given the go-ahead for Ridley Scott and Brian Grazer to make this film? Keep in mind you already sunk $30 million into the aborted Antione Fuqua version thanks to play-or-pay deals.

      Now you're on the line for an estimated $100 million production and maybe another $50-80 million in P&A. (That's L.A. Weekly's estimate, not mine....)

      $180-210 million period (read: 70s) / gangster / character-driven film?
      Okay, I'm not a Hollywood accountant... but even at 210 million, the thing is eventually going to make its money back through international box office, TV sales, DVD, etc. I would assume, not all things being equal but this one is a little more equal. But if you don't make it, that's just all those millions already spent down the memory hole.

      Of course, I stay as far away from the tables as I can get.
      "Forget it, Jake. It's Hollywood."

      My YouTube channel.

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      • #4
        Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

        Dudes, this thing will make bank if for no other reason than watching Denzel blow people away point-blank out of nowhere is AWESOME.

        For some reason, Denzel pulls that kind of shiz off better than any actor around - just remember when he decked that guy in "He Got Game". POW - right in the throat - "I'm sorry, what did you say?"

        Awesome.

        Okay, vicarious violence fetish rant over.

        As you were.

        AC
        "I've got vision up the butt, so just go with it!" - Dewey Finn, School of Rock

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        • #5
          Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

          If a bean counter would like Ridley to direct a film that would cost 5 times the normal budget, he could ask the director to commit to creating 4 additional movies at a fifth of the standard budget.

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          • #6
            Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

            Originally posted by creativexec
            You're only taking into account domestic box-office. Both Ridley and Russell have a strong following overseas. Worldwide and ancilliary markets should put AG over the top.

            The greenlight got Denzel a double pay-day, allowed him to do JULIUS CAESAR on Broadway, and got a few of us a bigger bonus last year. The way I see it, it's all good.

            I was hoping you'd chime in on this, CE.

            I knew you'd have an interesting perspective on it.

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            • #7
              Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

              Originally posted by creativexec
              You're only taking into account domestic box-office. Both Ridley and Russell have a strong following overseas. Worldwide and ancilliary markets should put AG over the top.

              The greenlight got Denzel a double pay-day, allowed him to do JULIUS CAESAR on Broadway, and got a few of us a bigger bonus last year. The way I see it, it's all good.

              I wouldn't have given it the greenlight at over 100m. No way. What were your above the line costs on AG, 70m or more? I don't understand how AG could possibly come in at much more than 100m, there must be a lot of fat in that budget.

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              • #8
                Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                Ridley Scott was born in 1937, that's makes him 70 years old..

                I remember reading they couldn't get insurance for David Lean during his last project Nostromo and the production folded.

                Resurfaced years later as a TV mini series

                My old man is 74, I mean he's knocking on, man..

                Ridley is not far off him in age terms. He can't go on forever.. There'll come a point when he'll simply retire.. Although in saying that he has six projects in different stages of production as a producer and three as a director right now, so who knows? Maybe there's still life in the old dog yet!

                Still think The Dualists (1977) is his best work.. sumptuous to look at, quite a visual orgasm.. Alien (1979) and Blade Runner (1982) ain't that bad either...

                Not sure if I would have greenlit that project myself, no...

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                • #9
                  Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                  Ridley looked quite healthy in the extra features of A Good Year. Altman directed thru his seventies. I think he's got a few more left in him.


                  I think all of Scott's films are bloated. Even w/o big set pieces or F/X, there's his fee, movie star fees, top notch crew fees, etc ... I noticed in the making of featurette of Matchstick Men that at one point he had a bunch of the dept heads all come out & look at a parking lot... a fvcking parking lot. And they stood around, pointed and talked about it. How much did that day cost?

                  What was the budget for Matchstick Men?... anyone?... $40 mil? It was a char piece with no special F/X, exotic locations etc, and it cost a ridiculous amount of money. (sorry if I'm off $$ wise)

                  There's no reason a small char drama has to be over 10 mil. No reason. Stars do not guarantee BO. If it had been an Indie movie it would have been done for 2 mil or whatever.

                  And it's not just Ridley Scott or his films. It's everyone. Some of the budgets for these movies are just fvcking ridiculous.

                  If I was a producer or studio exec I would tell some of these directors & stars to K my A.

                  No, i would not have greenlighted AG. Too big of a risk for this type of story. (I'm assuming it's akin to Blow or Scarface.)

                  But I wouldn't have fvcked up the development process when Fuqua was on board either. Waste of good money.


                  PS Sorry if this post sounds a bit harsh. I'm not that upset... just a teeny bit. These bloated budgets offend my thrifty, working class sensibilities.

                  "Trust your stuff." -- Dave Righetti, Pitching Coach

                  ( Formerly "stvnlra" )

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                  • #10
                    Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                    I liked the film a lot. I hope it does well.
                    Twitter: @WriterLe

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                    • #11
                      Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                      Originally posted by creativexec
                      We didn't produce it. We just did the deal.
                      Too bad ICM didn't package it, that would have been a nice chunk of change.

                      Hey, CE, I have a script for Denzel. Any interest in a period piece set in the Negro Leagues, 1946? Very well written, about two guys with a dream of owning their own team in Chicago, who must stand up against the Black mob who want to control sports gambling and the white, major league team owners who are poaching the great ball players on the cusp of integration.

                      I know you love to be pitched over the internet.

                      I tell everyone it's the perfect hat trick for an unmakeable script:

                      1. Black people.
                      2. Sports.
                      3. Period piece.

                      It's a great read, though. I didn't write it

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                      • #12
                        Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                        I haven't seen it yet, but I saw the DVD selling in Chinatown this afternoon and know a Bit-Torrent version has been on the web for a couple of weeks now, so if it has a weak opening, it's probably because a lot of people have already seen it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                          Originally posted by Moviequill View Post
                          of course I'd green light it and take a chance, if you can't at least THINK a triumvirate of Ridley, Denzel and Russell is going to do numbers, then just what sort of crystal ball do you have up your yazoo and is the freaking thing for sale?
                          Ask Universal what their expectations were for THE KINGDOM and get back to me.

                          Academy Award-winners Jamie Foxx and Chris Cooper (along with solid talent like Jennifer Garner and Jason Bateman), a dynamic director in Peter Berg, Michael Mann producing, and a timely (albeit "weighty") topic? Sounds good to me. Hell, the studio even delayed the film for FIVE MONTHS because the test screening scores were so unbelievably high. The rational was that no film released in April had ever cross the $100 million and so they positioned it in September for bigger B.O. potential.

                          And the pic underperformed. Big time. Some would go so far as to say it flopped.

                          Some of the worst greenlight decisions are made when you look at the pedigree in front of and behind the camera and little else because you think that will amount to financial success.

                          And, with nothing but all due respect to CE and his vast knowledge in the biz, I don't think Denzel's international draw will be a huge factor in a story that may not resonate overseas like a MAN ON FIRE or even DEJA VA would.

                          My additional two pennies.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                            Two questions. First of all, who cares? No matter what you do, you're never going to be right all the time. Success comes from being right a little more often than not.

                            Second, it's pointless for anyone to try and guess what any given film generates in terms of revenue. Can anyone here tell me what the total revenue generated for any given film is? Domestic and international box office, dvd sales and rentals, television and future equity as part of a studio's library? No, you can't, because that information is not for public consumption. So what's the point of all this, other than the current trend of taking delight in others financial missteps, which is bad for all of us?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Would you have green-lighted AMERICAN GANGSTER?

                              a lot of people on the street have seen this movie already. a lot of people have been passing it around too. i talked to a guy back home the other day and he said he was watching it in the barbershop and they had been playing it all day.

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