Shutter Island

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  • #31
    Re: Shutter Island

    SPOILERS

    Overall I liked the movie, but...

    I thought the opening scene on the boat was a cheat/cheap misdirection tool.

    We follow the story through the protagonists POV which is obviously an insane Dicaprio so I can accept all the misdirections and manipulations on the island, but there is no reason why he should have been on a boat off the island.

    He was a prisoner/patient on the island and the movie should have started with him walking up the pathway, on the island which was the realm in which his fantasy was being played out.
    I wanna tell you about the time I almost died....

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    • #32
      Re: Shutter Island

      Originally posted by Sinnycal View Post
      I thought that was pretty clearly intentional.
      I have never seen intentional sloppy continunity. Actor's hands were in different spots on reverse shots at least seven times and it had nothing to do with anything, negating any intention.
      Joan: What does the "T" stand for?
      Jack: Trustworthy.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Shutter Island

        Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
        The reason everyone is saying it's slow and pointless is because Leo's goal keeps changing.



        SPOILERS.................

        He starts out looking for an escaped woman, who ends up being found soon after. Then he says he wants to get off the island, but a hurricane keeps him there. Then he wants to get to Ward C. Then he says he's going to save some dude. Then he wants to get to the lighthouse. Then he's looking for his partner.

        These are not complications that must be addressed in order for Leo to move on with his main goal...they are separate goals entirely that don't have much of any connection with one another. Leo has NO main goal. He just decides to do a bunch of stuff for a while before deciding to do some other stuff.

        END SPOILERS...............



        It looked pretty and there was some fine acting, but the jarring editing, completely obvious twist and lack of a clear plot keeps this from being anything more than an above-average genre pic.

        What genre that is, however, remains under consideration. Like Bill said, it's not a real mystery and not a real thriller. It just exists.

        Masterpiece, my ass.
        I agree. During the slow parts I honestly found myself wanting to doze off. When I regained awareness, I kept wondering wtf the main character's goal was. I kept asking myself what the movie was about, and I could never answer that question.
        Joan: What does the "T" stand for?
        Jack: Trustworthy.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Shutter Island

          Originally posted by NePatsFan View Post
          I have never seen intentional sloppy continunity. Actor's hands were in different spots on reverse shots at least seven times and it had nothing to do with anything, negating any intention.
          Even my grandmother noticed, and she has no eye for stuff like that, so I really think it was something done intentionally to create a feeling of unease in the viewer.

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          • #35
            Re: Shutter Island

            Originally posted by Sinnycal View Post
            Even my grandmother noticed, and she has no eye for stuff like that, so I really think it was something done intentionally to create a feeling of unease in the viewer.
            I went with 4 other friends and not one of them took notice to it. Your grandmother apparantly does have an eye for stuff like that. How keen!
            Joan: What does the "T" stand for?
            Jack: Trustworthy.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Shutter Island

              Couldn't agree more about Leo's goals losing focus. First find Rachel, then patient 67 and the rule of four.


              Spoilers

              ................

              I thought the schizophrenia was the default excuse. A schizophrenic mind would not really have the faculties to conduct an orderly investigation. And that's why I thought it made sense in a practical way, but it would have been stronger if the clues to what Leo was really looking for were set-up and discovered by him rather than explained to him by Kingsley's character. I don't know if that is something that the script did.

              I know that Marty is not the guy for thriller-whodunits. And this was a mystery and a thriller and yet he didn't seem to have much interest in those aspects of the story.
              #writinginaStarbucks #re-thinkingmyexistence #notanotherweaklogline #thinkingwhatwouldWilldo

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Shutter Island

                ...as I said, this film is bound to elicit mixed reactions. I also contend that it's a masterpiece.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Shutter Island

                  SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




                  @Jim Mercurio: What you have presented are asthetic details. You have not shown me any evidence from the story.

                  YOUR "POINTS":

                  "the boat coming out of the mist"

                  This is not evidence. Prove to me that Teddy isn't a Marshal. Prove to me that he didn't come from the mainland. The boat on the water actually helps support my theory.

                  "the boat and the old school 50's fake matte background/look of them on the boat"

                  Not evidence.

                  "the idea of dream/movie/unreality"

                  Not evidence.

                  "he is afraid of the water, the thing that killed his children."

                  Not evidence. He's a Marshal who gets sick on boats.

                  "the overwhelming iterations of trapped/shackled in the first 60 seconds...maybe like 20-30 images of chains, cuffs, binds in glorious deep focus. This was textbook film school: here is a guy who is trapped."

                  That is not evidence. He is a Marshal coming from the mainland who has flashbacks and memories of his time at Dauchau.

                  So far nobody has presented any evidence from the story. Prove to me that Teddy isn't really a Marshal coming from the mainland who is driven to insanity on the island...

                  SMASH TO:

                  BLACK

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Shutter Island

                    So far nobody has presented any evidence from the story. Prove to me that Teddy isn't really a Marshal coming from the mainland who is driven to insanity on the island...
                    I like this take, Montana. I think the film is open to a certain level of interpretation and your theory holds water. But I hear that Scorsese has confirmed Teddy's insanity.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Shutter Island

                      Originally posted by Biohazard View Post
                      The reason everyone is saying it's slow and pointless is because Leo's goal keeps changing.



                      SPOILERS.................

                      He starts out looking for an escaped woman, who ends up being found soon after. Then he says he wants to get off the island, but a hurricane keeps him there. Then he wants to get to Ward C. Then he says he's going to save some dude. Then he wants to get to the lighthouse. Then he's looking for his partner.

                      These are not complications that must be addressed in order for Leo to move on with his main goal...they are separate goals entirely that don't have much of any connection with one another. Leo has NO main goal. He just decides to do a bunch of stuff for a while before deciding to do some other stuff.

                      END SPOILERS...............



                      It looked pretty and there was some fine acting, but the jarring editing, completely obvious twist and lack of a clear plot keeps this from being anything more than an above-average genre pic.

                      What genre that is, however, remains under consideration. Like Bill said, it's not a real mystery and not a real thriller. It just exists.

                      Masterpiece, my ass.
                      Among many many other things, what Bio said is the major reason it failed as a film. From a story point of view, the goals were random and unrelated.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Shutter Island

                        SPOILERS...........




                        Originally posted by Donreel View Post
                        ....Ruffalo's dialogue in the last scene left me guessing what the truth was supposed to be. He calls DiCaprio "boss" and Teddy"....
                        Originally posted by -XL- View Post
                        ......Ruffalo calling him by monikers from his fantasy life, as Leo departed, seemed like the doctor realising his patient is actually cured and trying to get Leo to respond to the other name in the hope that he was wrong.
                        Yikes....that's really subtle. So, you mean if Leo shows he is NOT cured, the good doctors won't lobotomize him? Because they only do that after "informed consent" by the patient? And Ruffalo does not want Teddy/Andrew to be lobotomized....because he likes the dude? So Ruffalo's character would rather see Leo live with his emotional pain than have his brain chopped? Not making fun of these ideas...just curious.
                        Originally posted by MontanaHans View Post
                        ....So far nobody has presented any evidence from the story. Prove to me that Teddy isn't really a Marshal coming from the mainland who is driven to insanity on the island...
                        Some negatives can be proven ("There is no weasel in my pocket"), but the fact that no one has yet proven the negative you set up ("Teddy isn't really a Marshal"), does not therefore prove that he IS. From evidence in the movie, can you prove he is?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Shutter Island

                          SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>




                          @Donreel: You ask if I can prove, using evidence in the movie, that Teddy is a Marshal. Yes, I can:

                          He is awake and cogent on a boat heading toward Shutter Island with memories of being a Marshall. He has an assignment as a Marshall to go to Shutter Island. He has an authentic Marshall's badge on his belt. He has a gun and a holster and he knows how to quickly pull out the holster when asked to do so, while Chuck (an "actor Marshall"), has troubles. He has instinctual investigative prowess. As these characteristics are stripped from Teddy he is driven deeper into insanity. By the end he actually is insane. Everything they tell him is a lie.
                          Last edited by MontanaHans; 02-22-2010, 11:47 AM.

                          SMASH TO:

                          BLACK

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Shutter Island

                            SPOILERS



                            -
                            -
                            -
                            -
                            --
                            [quote=MontanaHans;621600]SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




                            @Jim Mercurio: What you have presented are asthetic details. You have not shown me any evidence from the story.

                            YOUR "POINTS":

                            "the boat coming out of the mist" >>>

                            I think you are nitpicking the definition of story here. In a movie that purports to be filtered through the mind of a guy's brain, how are images that tell the story not the story?

                            If not, they are at least clues to what the filmmaker's intention is and what he thinks is the truth. The images of the chains and handcuffs were not in an early draft of the script.

                            I don't think the filmmakers are leaving it open-ended about whether what we saw was filtered through the viewpoint of an unreliable narrator. Of course, some of it was subjective and not real. The only ambiguity they leave us with is is he faking it at the end?

                            If by "Story", you mean something like he claims that the gun on the desk in the tower is his because of the initials and he knows it's loaded and we are show the Ben K character shot for an instant...and then it is revealed that it's a toy gun. Unless everything else from that point on is supposed to be completely made up, i.e., Ben Kingsely is actually dead and he has shot the head of the asylum, then there would seem to be pretty conclusive proof in that scene that his perceptions that HE so strongly believes have been WRONG.

                            And that flashback to his wife and the dead kids, that is presented by the filmmakers as fact. It's not like Memento where a few flashcuts are inserted that suggest a completely incomprehensible experience. The flashback with the drowned kids is presented not in a tricky subjective way. It is presented as objective fact. If that's the case, which I think it is, then the imaginary arsonist/murder idea becomes obviously not true. Which then means he was delusional (or choose your euphimism for bonkers)at the beginning

                            I think the filmmakers were playing with that often-cliched idea of "Ooh, maybe he is sane and made to look crazy," and the character buys it 100% and we embrace the possibility of the idea but by the ending, I think the film answers that question 100%.

                            ---
                            To answer someone else's concern. In the world of this story where they were playing a game, it is possible that he was on the ferry at the beginning to make the story work.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Shutter Island

                              SPOILERS...........

                              Originally posted by Donreel View Post





                              Yikes....that's really subtle. So, you mean if Leo shows he is NOT cured, the good doctors won't lobotomize him? Because they only do that after "informed consent" by the patient? And Ruffalo does not want Teddy/Andrew to be lobotomized....because he likes the dude? So Ruffalo's character would rather see Leo live with his emotional pain than have his brain chopped? Not making fun of these ideas...just curious.
                              Nope, not quite what I meant. Going into the scene we're told that this is their last attempt at curing him and that if he relapses again then that's it, they'll be forced to lobotomize him.

                              He makes a comment to Ruffalo's character that makes it seem like he's relapsed, and Ruffalo gives the other doctors the thumbs down (the treatment was unsuccessful), then Leo spouts the "Is it better to live a monster or die a good man?" line. That line makes Ruffalo (perhaps correctly, depending on your read) wonder whether Leo is actually faking his relapse, so he calls out to him using the fantasy monikers -- which Leo would answer to if he were really having a relapse -- in the hopes that Leo will respond and he won't be sending a cured man to be lobotomized.
                              twitter.com/leespatterson

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Shutter Island

                                Originally posted by -XL- View Post
                                SPOILERS...........



                                Nope, not quite what I meant. Going into the scene we're told that this is their last attempt at curing him and that if he relapses again then that's it, they'll be forced to lobotomize him.

                                He makes a comment to Ruffalo's character that makes it seem like he's relapsed, and Ruffalo gives the other doctors the thumbs down (the treatment was unsuccessful), then Leo spouts the "Is it better to live a monster or die a good man?" line. That line makes Ruffalo (perhaps correctly, depending on your read) wonder whether Leo is actually faking his relapse, so he calls out to him using the fantasy monikers -- which Leo would answer to if he were really having a relapse -- in the hopes that Leo will respond and he won't be sending a cured man to be lobotomized.
                                It's an interesting theory -XL- if I'm understanding it. So Leo could actually be faking his relapse in order to die because he is now aware of what he did and thus finds himself to be a "monster" and unworthy of living with such a burden. Very astute XL. Is that what you're saying?

                                perhaps the line "is it better to live like a monster..." shows a self awareness that seems like a line that only Leo's character could say if he was aware of the terrible thing he had done.

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