Shutter Island

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    PunchTheKeys
    User

  • PunchTheKeys
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    SPOILER
    If Chuck Aule was meant to keep Teddy Daniels safe, why would he leave him to scale down those cliffs by himself [down to the lighthouse]?

    Anyway a bit disappointed that the twist turned out to be exactly what I thought it was going to be, but the movie itself was so well made and dripping with atmosphere and mood that I forgive it. In a more naive time where audiences weren't so used to twists like this it would have been a doozy, so maybe I can just pretend this is a lost Hitchcock movie or something next time I watch it.
    Remember that commercial Scorsese made that was disguised as exactly that? A lost Hitchcock script.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3l...to-reserva_ads

    The audio tracks for the ones on YouTube have all been disabled.

    Leave a comment:

  • NoTalentAssClown
    Regular

  • NoTalentAssClown
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by MontanaHans View Post
    SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>




    @Donreel: You ask if I can prove, using evidence in the movie, that Teddy is a Marshal. Yes, I can:

    He is awake and cogent on a boat heading toward Shutter Island with memories of being a Marshall. He has an assignment as a Marshall to go to Shutter Island. He has an authentic Marshall's badge on his belt. He has a gun and a holster and he knows how to quickly pull out the holster when asked to do so, while Chuck (an "actor Marshall"), has troubles. He has instinctual investigative prowess. As these characteristics are stripped from Teddy he is driven deeper into insanity. By the end he actually is insane. Everything they tell him is a lie.
    I thought it was clear that Andrew Laeddis was some kind of cop (not necessarily a marshall), before he was committed. In the drowning flashback, when he enters the house, he sets down his gun (the one he kills his wife with) and possibly his badge (not 100% on this), and starts talking about some case he's on. I think the way that flashback was shot indicates to us that it's a real memory, not a schizophrenic hallucination (compared to his "building fire" dreams, etc).

    So yes, Andrew/Teddy has investigative prowess and can handle a gun, because he used to be a cop (and a soldier, too). But I don't see how that supports your theory that he was perfectly sane at the beginning of the film. Andrew's fantasy life was spun from reality, and this is another example of that. He was a cop, but reimagined himself as a federal marshall because it granted him jurisdiction over Shutter Island, i.e. a logical reason to be there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gwai Lo
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by Jim Mercurio View Post
    I liked it too. IMHO, Scorsese thinks of this as a drama. There is a skeleton of a goal, but the real spine is his unconscious desire to cling on to the lie. So the movie has the dreamlike logic where his internal motivation is the key, not the exterior events. They seem sort of random sometimes but with one-viewing and figuring out the plot twist about 5 months ago from the trailer, the imaginary characters do culminate in a pretty strong force of antagonism. THeir orchestration keeps him in denial for a long time. Rachel 2 in the cave --that was a pretty convincing little scene: you have no friends. Shudder Island....wooooo.
    You beat me to it. The game of musical chairs Lehane/Scorsese played with Leo's external goals didn't bother me at all, because the internal goal was static. Only static in light of the ending, perhaps, but I figured out the ending as soon as whoever-it-was said that one line of dialogue explaining the psychology of the woman who escaped: that she had built an elaborate fantasy world in order to cope with a deeply ingrained psychological trauma. You can't just have a line like that in there and expect the audience not to connect the dots, especially when nobody in the movie addresses it as a possibility for Leo himself. It's only there as a bit of foreshadowing so it sticks out like a sore thumb. The easily guessable twist was a bit of a problem, fair enough, but to tell you the truth I think the lack of a solid external goal was something only a screenwriter or dramaturgist would notice. I didn't mind that.

    Anyway a bit disappointed that the twist turned out to be exactly what I thought it was going to be, but the movie itself was so well made and dripping with atmosphere and mood that I forgive it. In a more naive time where audiences weren't so used to twists like this it would have been a doozy, so maybe I can just pretend this is a lost Hitchcock movie or something next time I watch it.

    Leave a comment:

  • MontanaHans
    Member

  • MontanaHans
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    @Jim: That is crazy about the cheat in the script. Don't think I wanna read the script now, but thanks. That is very telling though. I'm with you. An enjoyable film, but no masterpiece.

    @NePatsFan: How do you know the gun was fake through the entire film? Because Kingsley and Co TELL YOU IT'S FAKE AT THE END OF MOVIE? Pretty weak. Teddy never uses the gun during the story. It could very well be a real gun at the beginning, there is no way of knowing. Kinglsey and Co. take it from him, then they have an entire two days to switch it with a toy. At the end, THEY TELL TEDDY that it has always been fake. What if they are lying? This would further convince Teddy of his own insanity. Try again please.

    Leave a comment:

  • NePatsFan
    Member

  • NePatsFan
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by MontanaHans View Post
    SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




    @Jim Mercurio: What you have presented are asthetic details. You have not shown me any evidence from the story.

    YOUR "POINTS":

    "the boat coming out of the mist"

    This is not evidence. Prove to me that Teddy isn't a Marshal. Prove to me that he didn't come from the mainland. The boat on the water actually helps support my theory.

    "the boat and the old school 50's fake matte background/look of them on the boat"

    Not evidence.

    "the idea of dream/movie/unreality"

    Not evidence.

    "he is afraid of the water, the thing that killed his children."

    Not evidence. He's a Marshal who gets sick on boats.

    "the overwhelming iterations of trapped/shackled in the first 60 seconds...maybe like 20-30 images of chains, cuffs, binds in glorious deep focus. This was textbook film school: here is a guy who is trapped."

    That is not evidence. He is a Marshal coming from the mainland who has flashbacks and memories of his time at Dauchau.

    So far nobody has presented any evidence from the story. Prove to me that Teddy isn't really a Marshal coming from the mainland who is driven to insanity on the island...
    He was using a toy gun the entire time which he thought was real?

    Leave a comment:

  • Jim Mercurio
    Regular

  • Jim Mercurio
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by MontanaHans View Post
    @Jim and BioH: Okay I concede. It is what it is. But I still liked it! Not a masterpiece though.
    Actually, in the script, in that flashback, there is a cheat: it says

    His name is Andrew but we will keep calling him Teddy.

    I swear. I found a draft from a few years. You can Pm me if you want it.

    I liked it too. IMHO, Scorsese thinks of this as a drama. There is a skeleton of a goal, but the real spine is his unconscious desire to cling on to the lie. So the movie has the dreamlike logic where his internal motivation is the key, not the exterior events. They seem sort of random sometimes but with one-viewing and figuring out the plot twist about 5 months ago from the trailer, the imaginary characters do culminate in a pretty strong force of antagonism. THeir orchestration keeps him in denial for a long time. Rachel 2 in the cave --that was a pretty convincing little scene: you have no friends. Shudder Island....wooooo.

    As a drama, it's not a masterpiece and it's not going to hold up as a thriller or horror really. It's just a smart atmospheric drama with some genre touches.

    Actually, I wonder if they move away from the Holiday movies was because they realized, like Cape Fear, they have a cool potboiler but it's not the award-season sort of drama that they were hoping that they have.

    Thanks for a civil discussion.

    Leave a comment:

  • Sinnycal
    Member

  • Sinnycal
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by MontanaHans View Post
    SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>




    @Donreel: You ask if I can prove, using evidence in the movie, that Teddy is a Marshal. Yes, I can:

    He is awake and cogent on a boat heading toward Shutter Island with memories of being a Marshall. He has an assignment as a Marshall to go to Shutter Island. He has an authentic Marshall's badge on his belt. He has a gun and a holster and he knows how to quickly pull out the holster when asked to do so, while Chuck (an "actor Marshall"), has troubles. He has instinctual investigative prowess. As these characteristics are stripped from Teddy he is driven deeper into insanity. By the end he actually is insane. Everything they tell him is a lie.
    Chuck having trouble removing the holster was a valid clue, but Teddy's abilities don't tell us anything. He was a Marshall as Andrew Laeddis, too.

    Leave a comment:

  • Terrance Mulloy
    Member

  • Terrance Mulloy
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by NoTalentAssClown View Post
    For the record, I'll savor any and all chances I get to watch DiCaprio and Ruffalo walk around in trenchoats and fedoras for 2 (& a half) hours.
    That makes two of us.

    Leave a comment:

  • MontanaHans
    Member

  • MontanaHans
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    @Jim and BioH: Okay I concede. It is what it is. But I still liked it! Not a masterpiece though.

    Leave a comment:

  • NoTalentAssClown
    Regular

  • NoTalentAssClown
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    I enojoyed the hell out of the movie. Suppose I'm a sucker, because I didn't see a twist coming. I didn't even know this was a twist story, thus wasn't actively looking for one. I love being dumb sometimes. I was always engaged, felt like I was experiencing the story through the eyes of Leo's character. Scorsese did a great job of making me feel like Teddy Daniels.

    For the record, I'll savor any and all chances I get to watch DiCaprio and Ruffalo walk around in trenchoats and fedoras for 2 (& a half) hours. I've also liked every Scorsese movie in this decade (edit: this millenium. Sheesh, is it really 2010?). Yeah, even GANGS.
    NoTalentAssClown
    Regular
    Last edited by NoTalentAssClown; 02-22-2010, 07:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:

  • peasblossom
    Member

  • peasblossom
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by snwrist View Post

    SPOILERS BELOW....







    When it's revealed that DiCaprio has, in fact, been a patient at the asylum for two years and is completely insane, some things come into light. You can really look at the film as the slow, long descent into insanity/hell of a tortured mind. It's, more or less, just about a guy losing his mind in many ways. And I think it's handled absolutely brilliantly. A real gut-wrenching experience that won't appeal to everyone, for sure.

    From watching the trailer I thought "I bet he's really a patient there, and is insane". Haven't seen the movie yet. But, I definitely wouldn't have been surprised by that ending. They give too much away in the trailers, at least for me.

    Leave a comment:

  • Biohazard
    Member

  • Biohazard
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by MontanaHans View Post
    Prove to me that Teddy isn't really a Marshal coming from the mainland who is driven to insanity on the island...


    SPOILERS.............................

    The film tells us that Teddy was insane all along and taking part in a role-play experiment hoping to cure him, so the burden of proof lies on those who believe in the contrary.

    There are numerous clues throughout the film to indicate that the way the film ended was indeed the truth, from the flashback with his wife drowning his children (with no evidence to indicate that it was a dream or a false memory) to Chuck not being able to remove his pistol from his waist when they are asked to surrender their firearms...

    There is simply no evidence to support any claim that the way the story ended was not what we are supposed to believe.

    Leave a comment:


  • omovie
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by snwrist View Post
    XL's spot-on--this is exactly what's going on in this scene. Honestly, I'm surprised so many people didn't get that from the scene. But that's yet another great thing about film as art--it's open to interpretation and discussion.
    Well it certainly adds a layer of depth to a character, that, for two hours and fifteen minutes is flat and uninteresting. It's interesting because he makes a complex and moral decision about himself. Unfortunately, he makes absolutly no decisions through the first 2+ hours of the this flaccid film.

    Leave a comment:


  • snwrist
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    It's an interesting theory -XL- if I'm understanding it. So Leo could actually be faking his relapse in order to die because he is now aware of what he did and thus finds himself to be a "monster" and unworthy of living with such a burden. Very astute XL. Is that what you're saying?
    XL's spot-on--this is exactly what's going on in this scene. Honestly, I'm surprised so many people didn't get that from the scene. But that's yet another great thing about film as art--it's open to interpretation and discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • omovie
    replied
    Re: Shutter Island

    Originally posted by -XL- View Post
    SPOILERS...........



    Nope, not quite what I meant. Going into the scene we're told that this is their last attempt at curing him and that if he relapses again then that's it, they'll be forced to lobotomize him.

    He makes a comment to Ruffalo's character that makes it seem like he's relapsed, and Ruffalo gives the other doctors the thumbs down (the treatment was unsuccessful), then Leo spouts the "Is it better to live a monster or die a good man?" line. That line makes Ruffalo (perhaps correctly, depending on your read) wonder whether Leo is actually faking his relapse, so he calls out to him using the fantasy monikers -- which Leo would answer to if he were really having a relapse -- in the hopes that Leo will respond and he won't be sending a cured man to be lobotomized.
    It's an interesting theory -XL- if I'm understanding it. So Leo could actually be faking his relapse in order to die because he is now aware of what he did and thus finds himself to be a "monster" and unworthy of living with such a burden. Very astute XL. Is that what you're saying?

    perhaps the line "is it better to live like a monster..." shows a self awareness that seems like a line that only Leo's character could say if he was aware of the terrible thing he had done.

    Leave a comment:

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