INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Um, I stated several times that that was my main problem with the film

I know. I even copied what you said instead of retyping it.

That's why I included this line:

The only comments on any of those things are in agreement to what I originally said.

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Nobody has yet commented on the hero's lack of involvement in the main action of the story to the point that he didn't even have to go into the dream world at all.

The alternative to going into the dream world would be what? Forcing Fischer to break the company up? The movie posits the theory that the most infectious thing in the world is an idea. How exactly would the team force Fischer to turn a unilateral empire into a cooperative using physical force? Given Cobb's training, the inception of an idea would appear to be the most logical course of action to take. Here's an analogy for you. I'm a computer hacker, maybe the best one around. I want to take down a major company. What am I going to do, write a virus? Or storm into their headquarters with guns blazing and blow the place up?

This gripe reminds me of the old LORD OF THE RINGS chestnut: "why don't they just put a Hobbit on one of them eagles and get him to drop the ring in Mordor in a fly-by?" Well, because that story would suck, for one.

Nobody has yet commented on the disconnect between Leo's internal conflict with Cotillard and the external conflict of planting the idea, or the emotional disconnect between his goal of getting home and his trouble letting his wife go.

Where is the disconnect? In the literal narrative, Saito makes a simple A-->B offer. ie. If Cobb can break into Fischer's mind and plant the idea to break up the company, Saito will pull the strings he has access to as a powerful businessman to have Cobb's criminal charges stricken from the record. Cobb will be allowed to return home. Thus, his physical goal is getting home by way of inception. An internal need is usually distinct from a physical goal. ie. Luke Skywalker's physical goal is to save the princess and defeat the empire, but his internal need is overcome his weakness and the potential to drift to the dark side. Cobb's internal need is to come to terms with his guilt in the death of his wife. Which, not coincidentally, WAS CAUSED BY HIS FIRST ATTEMPT AT INCEPTION, AND LED TO HIS CRIMINAL EXILE! If all of these elements are not connected and wrapped up in a little bow for you, then I am actually a platypus typing this post from the planet Neptune.

Nobody has yet commented on conceit that to enter someone else's dream and control it means that you would have to control your own subconscious, which they state elsewhere is impossible.

There is evidence of Leo struggling with this all throughout the movie. His subconscious continues to bubble up against his will in the form of Mal and his children. The subconscious of other characters is asserted in the form of projections. When Ariadne is in her first training session, her realization that she is relying on her subconscious causes a spontaneous explosion of the universe. Nolan presents a rather ordered version of the dream world that SOME people think is too clinical and realistic to portray the dream world. But I have never, ever seen my own dreams portrayed accurately in a film. In fact, I find stuff like A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET and THE CELL to be even farther from the mark than INCEPTION. My dreams do tend to be rather realistic and convincing, and while I am in them I usually do not have Tim Burton or Terry Gilliam style hallucinations, but visions that often seem to be the real world until I wake up and realize I'm not in university anymore, or at a house party, or able to fly a 747.

This link makes a good case for why Nolan's dream world is not meant to be a literal dream world, but a metaphor for the filmmaking process

Nobody has yet commented on the fact that there is nothing at stake for anyone except Leo, and nobody gains anything by doing this mission except Leo.

First of all, I don't really see why it's a problem for just the protagonist in a film to have something at stake. As long as there is something at stake, that's the important thing. Second of all, this is wrong. There is plenty at stake for Fischer, for instance, as his entire future and the future of his company and by extension, the future of the world's energy supply, is in the hands of these dream meddlers. Fischer never wises up, but as I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, neither does Lonnegan in THE STING. Neither does Benedict in OCEAN'S ELEVEN. There are moments when you wonder if they will foil the hero, just as there are moments in INCEPTION when Fischer could clue into what's going on, or screw the whole thing up. Like, for instance, when he almost shoots himself in the head in the bathroom, or when he gets killed in the snow fortress and they have to literally bring him back to life to get him to finish having his revelation. There is also plenty at stake for Saito, whose own company and fortune will crumble if the inception is not successful. There may not be much personally at stake for the other members of the team, but once they are submerged in sleep they are instantly vulnerable to limbo. Which, in case you missed it, could mean decades in the depths of the subconscious, where one can easily lose their mind. By the way, I didn't interpret the "scrambled eggs" line to be a literal thing. I think it means that decades in one's own subconscious are enough to drive all but the strongest of minds absolutely batty.

Which is a nice segue into the theoretical. There are theories already floating around, including in the link posted above, that posit the whole narrative to be Cobb's dream. This is one of two options in the film's Schrodinger's cat of an ending. It is entirely possible that Mal was right, and that Cobb has been dreaming THE ENTIRE TIME! If this is true, every other character is a subconscious projection, and thus it makes perfect sense for them to lack the depth of real people, and only fill the archetypal roles alloted to them by Cobb's mind. Others in this thread have asked how we are able to see scenes without Cobb in them if this is the case. I don't understand this question, as I have had dreams in which I am not a participant. Just last week I dreamed that my little brother was on Letterman, and crip-walked over to the chair and brushed it off before sitting down and delivering a hilarious interview. Don't ask me what that's about.

As for what's gained, I think it goes without saying that they all stand to make a lot of money from the mission.

Nobody has yet commented on the lack of rules for altering the dream world.

What do you want, a textbook? Is there too much exposition or is there not enough? Figure out what criticism you're making here and get back to us. Just as THE MATRIX doesn't explain why on earth machines would use humans as a power source, or why leather jackets, slicked back hair and cool shades seem to be a prerequisite for entering the Matrix, INCEPTION doesn't get into the nitty gritty of how architecture works or what the hard sci-fi is behind the dream technology. This is because it would probably sound ridiculous. I don't need to see HAL 9000's instructions manual.

Nobody has yet commented on glacial pace,

I fail to understand how a film that sustains an hour long action climax that occurs on five layers of reality each with their own relativistic time rules and ripple effect repercussions is "glacial pace". You are describing your subjective experience, and as I found the film to have white-knuckle pacing, I dismiss it as I would dismiss someone who says 2001 is slow and boring and has too many scenes that go on too long or are otherwise unimportant to the plot. Why show a character walk all the way across a room just to show off her velcro anti-grav boots? and etc. IRRELEVANT!

amateurish exposition,

There was nothing amateurish about INCEPTION. It is the work of one of the industry's top filmmakers at the height of his powers. Exposition, explaining the con, is a common convention of a heist movie. And when your climax is an hour long and depends on intricate rules, it is important to familiarize the audience with those rules. Again, the film uses the convention of teaching the newbie, which I find easily forgivable. You apparently think the film fails in this respect because the protagonist knows the rules and is explaining them to Ariadne. As Ariadne is something of a greek chorus, a voice of reason that, much like the audience, is along for the ride rather than behind the wheel, I find this entirely acceptable.

lack of character development, etc.

I think I've covered this in my previous points, but I found the characters plenty developed. Especially Cobb, who might be the only one that matters.

Finally, just in case it was missed, I am copying my rebuttal for the "there's no villain" gripe:

At no point during the film did I feel a lack of antagonistic pressure. That is because there are two surrogates:

The mark. As this is a caper film, the main antagonist is Fischer: the mark. Much like Lonnegan in THE STING, he never has a prayer of outwitting our hero(s). Much like Lonnegan in THE STING, he still poses a physical threat to the hero(s) if the hero(s) screws up. Lonnegan is a crime boss so he has goons, Fischer's defensive training for extraction provides the armed projections of his subconscious.

The spectral loved one. Mal fills a similar role to Hari in SOLARIS. Her presence forces the hero to confront his deepest flaws and anxieties.

So, as this is not a simple good guys fight bad guys movie, I do not find the lack of a big bad to be an error in judgment. Frankly, to have Fischer or Mal actually assume the role of a mastermind villain would have been moronic. Thankfully Nolan was aware of this and structured the film elegantly around far less common conventions.

[lordmanji]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Um...when? Please inform me of exactly how I was wrong, because I honestly want to know.

Nobody has yet commented on the hero's lack of involvement in the main action of the story to the point that he didn't even have to go into the dream world at all. Nobody has yet commented on the disconnect between Leo's internal conflict with Cotillard and the external conflict of planting the idea, or the emotional disconnect between his goal of getting home and his trouble letting his wife go. Nobody has yet commented on conceit that to enter someone else's dream and control it means that you would have to control your own subconscious, which they state elsewhere is impossible. Nobody has yet commented on the fact that there is nothing at stake for anyone except Leo, and nobody gains anything by doing this mission except Leo. Nobody has yet commented on the lack of rules for altering the dream world. Nobody has yet commented on glacial pace, amateurish exposition, lack of character development, etc.

The only comments on any of those things are in agreement to what I originally said.

Please, point me in the right direction. I honestly want to know how I am wrong. Don't give me a Christopher Nolan run-around where nothing adds up. I want someone to logically and clearly explain to me exactly why I am wrong.

biohazard, your logic and understanding is so out of whack. its like talking to someone from another planet. i'll take my time to answer your new problems with the story but quit moving the bar further when it suits you.

leo's main involvement in the action is being the team leader. he assembles the team and then oversees them.

what do you mean leo didnt ever have to go into the dream world? he HAS to because he'll be able to see his kids due to saito's promise. and saito's obviously got the pull to do it. or were you thinking he should just sneak aboard a ship? well guess what, that's not this movie.

leo's internal conflict is he needs to forgive himself for planting the idea in cotillard that drove her to suicide.

there is no disconnect between letting the wife go and seeing the children. they are different people. this internal and external goal is actually connected since if he can't forgive himself, he'll doom himself to being stuck in limbo and fail the mission and then he won't be able to see his kids.

the architect creates the world but its the dreamer who populates it. leo's team affects the dreamer but doesnt control his subconscious. and as for controlling their own subconscious, leo obviously can't do that as shown by cotillard's projection. as for the others, they can. and they all can also enter dreams. it's called suspending your disbelief.

the team member's all have something at stake. maybe you need to be hit over the head with it. first off, they're all in danger of being trapped in limbo and then dying. page's character is eager to make her way into the world. saito's business is at stake. the others are in it for the money. or did you want everyone to have some emotional need fulfilled? this isnt a straight up drama. it's a heist movie with dramatic elements. you must be confused.

the heavyhanded exposition has been commented on numerous times. you really are blind if you havent read post after post lamenting it. character development? leo's character. and again, not a weepy drama so you cant expect everyone to be developed. glacial pace? cmon man, what movie are you watching? first 30 minutes was indeed slow but after that 4 different storylines intercutting simultaneously, as another poster said similar to a 2 hour climax and this is too slow for you? you want rules for the dream world? a kick wakes you up, you cant die in a dream but be stuck in limbo, tinker around enough and the people who are part of the dreamer's subconscious will attack you. or did you want a 1000 page manual that had nothing to do with the story?

while you brought up some good points at the beginning, you've become a broken record, bio. worse than that, when people answer your questions, you put blinders on and create new standards to be met to satisfy you. which is an impossible task, apparently and i know youre doing it to just get a rise out of us because noone can be so dense yet condescending at the same time. or can they? what's more, you're being ridiculous by attacking the logic of a filmmaker who's the most logical filmmaker out there. as other posters have said, inception's dream world is strange to see since it all makes so much sense even with its three levels within levels.

[Rantanplan]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I know. I even copied what you said instead of retyping it.

That's why I included this line: The only comments on any of those things are in agreement to what I originally said.

Must not have seen the post where you talk about it too, but yeah, not sure mind control could work that way.

Anyway, I think the concept is kick ass, but several elements needed to either be more clear or explored to their fullest potential.

Loved the end titles with that awesome score. That kind of stuff always reminds me how much cooler it is to see these flicks at the theatre. Just big ass titles that reach across the screen, that's enough of a reminder.
Title art gets totally diminished on the small screen.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Here's an analogy for you. I'm a computer hacker, maybe the best one around. I want to take down a major company. What am I going to do, write a virus? Or storm into their headquarters with guns blazing and blow the place up?

Assemble a team to write the virus for you while you go masquerading with your dead wife. Right?

That's the problem - Leo's involvement with planting the dream is so minimal, he was practically not needed. He did nothing that Levitt couldn't do in his place.

Where is the disconnect? In the literal narrative, Saito makes a simple A-->B offer. ie. If Cobb can break into Fischer's mind and plant the idea to break up the company, Saito will pull the strings he has access to as a powerful businessman to have Cobb's criminal charges stricken from the record. Cobb will be allowed to return home.

I get that. What I don't get is how the wife has anything to do with that task. Nothing Leo does or could possibly do with his wife would get them any closer to planting the idea that leads to the break-up of the company which allows Leo to return home.

There is evidence of Leo struggling with this all throughout the movie. His subconscious continues to bubble up against his will in the form of Mal and his children. The subconscious of other characters is asserted in the form of projections. When Ariadne is in her first training session, her realization that she is relying on her subconscious causes a spontaneous explosion of the universe.

Where is the manifestation of this in the actual mission? What does Page struggle with? What does Levitt struggle with? What does the Bronson guy struggle with? What does the van driver struggle with? What does Cillian struggle with? What does Watanabe struggle with?

All of these characters are in complete control of their subconscious 100% of the time.

First of all, I don't really see why it's a problem for just the protagonist in a film to have something at stake.

It becomes a problem when the only one with anything to lose or gain is not actively participating in the mission.

What do you want, a textbook?

No, I want clarity. I want to know who is allowed to alter who's dreams. This information remains unclear for sheer plot convenience.

There was nothing amateurish about INCEPTION.

Except the dialogue, lack of character development and complete disregard of logic.

leo's main involvement in the action is being the team leader. he assembles the team and then oversees them.

what do you mean leo didnt ever have to go into the dream world? he HAS to because he'll be able to see his kids due to saito's promise. and saito's obviously got the pull to do it. or were you thinking he should just sneak aboard a ship? well guess what, that's not this movie.

How can Leo oversee his team when he's not even with any of them half the time except Page? And Page wasn't actively doing anything that pertained to the mission at any point once they entered the dream.

Leo had absolutely no clue what was going on with the mission for a vast majority of it.

there is no disconnect between letting the wife go and seeing the children. they are different people. this internal and external goal is actually connected since if he can't forgive himself, he'll doom himself to being stuck in limbo and fail the mission and then he won't be able to see his kids.

Bill Martell already explained this. Go back and read what he said.

the architect creates the world but its the dreamer who populates it. leo's team affects the dreamer but doesnt control his subconscious. and as for controlling their own subconscious, leo obviously can't do that as shown by cotillard's projection. as for the others, they can. and they all can also enter dreams. it's called suspending your disbelief.

I cannot suspend my disbelief if pertinent questions remain unanswered.

Who is able to alter who's dreams?

the team member's all have something at stake. maybe you need to be hit over the head with it. first off, they're all in danger of being trapped in limbo and then dying.

What terrible thing would happen if Page decided not to go? If Watanabe decided not to go? Levitt? Bronson? The van driver?

The worst that would happen to anyone except Leo is a return to ordinary life with nothing lost, and that is a mark of weak stakes.

character development? leo's character. and again, not a weepy drama so you cant expect everyone to be developed. glacial pace? cmon man, what movie are you watching? first 30 minutes was indeed slow but after that 4 different storylines intercutting simultaneously, as another poster said similar to a 2 hour climax and this is too slow for you?

Leo is not the only character in the film. Well, actually, he is. Everyone else is a cardboard one-dimensional cut-out.

The lack of peaks and valleys in the second and third act are what create the glacial pace, as stated before. A van falling for 45 minutes is not my idea of an exciting thing to watch.

The reason I have to repeat myself is because some people don't understand what is wrong with the film.

It's a shame that a film with such poor screenwriting is praised on a screenwriting message board.

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Assemble a team to write the virus for you while you go masquerading with your dead wife. Right?

That's the problem - Leo's involvement with planting the dream is so minimal, he was practically not needed. He did nothing that Levitt couldn't do in his place.

The article I posted a link to compares the various team members to their analogues in the filmmaking process. Cobb is the director. What does a director do? He doesn't frame the shots, the DOP does that. He isn't responsible for the performances, the actors are. He doesn't tell the story, the writer does. But he puts his name on the thing, he takes responsibility for the total package. He is the uniting vision that organizes the pieces. Cobb is the director.

Why didn't George Lucas direct THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK? I mean it's not like Kirshner did anything that Lucas couldn't do in his place, right? This character, by the way, is called a point man. Brad Pitt could have handled the heist in OCEAN'S ELEVEN. But Clooney ran the show.

I get that. What I don't get is how the wife has anything to do with that task. Nothing Leo does or could possibly do with his wife would get them any closer to planting the idea that leads to the break-up of the company which allows Leo to return home.

His wife's appearances in the heist plot are unplanned. In SOLARIS, Kelvin does not go to Solaris to be reunited with a spectral version of his wife. He goes to study his planet. His wife's appearance is incidental and interferes with his work. The movie NEVER suggests that his wife has anything to do with successfully pulling off the heist, as you seem to be accusing it of here:

Nothing Leo does or could possibly do with his wife would get them any closer to planting the idea that leads to the break-up of the company which allows Leo to return home.

Where is the manifestation of this in the actual mission? What does Page struggle with? What does Levitt struggle with? What does the Bronson guy struggle with? What does the van driver struggle with? What does Cillian struggle with? What does Watanabe struggle with?

What does Cypher struggle with? What does Tank struggle with? What does Apoc struggle with? What does Mouse struggle with? What does Dozer struggle with?

All of these characters are in complete control of their subconscious 100% of the time.

No, I want clarity. I want to know who is allowed to alter who's dreams. This information remains unclear for sheer plot convenience.

The information is made explicit. The engineer creates the environment. The mark fills it with their subconscious. No one else that participates seems to have any influence on the dream world. Think of it as a Facebook Event with two Admins.

It becomes a problem when the only one with anything to lose or gain is not actively participating in the mission.

Cobb is active in all five levels of reality. I could sit here bullet point listing all the things Cobb does in the movie but you'd know what they are if you paid attention.

Except the dialogue, lack of character development and complete disregard of logic.

It actually hurts your argument to be flippant like this. I just assume you have no real arguments to make when you resort to the subjective. Completely disregarding logic, if you will.

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

The worst that would happen to anyone except Leo is a return to ordinary life with nothing lost, and that is a mark of weak stakes.

What would happen to Michael Corleone if he decided not to avenge his father? A return to ordinary life with Kay.

What would happen to Luke Skywalker if he decided not to accompany Obiwan to save the princess? A return to ordinary life on Tatooine. (OK, so his aunt and uncle would be dead, but he still could have gone around shooting wamp rats and picking up power converters without joining the rebels)

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

What does Cypher struggle with? What does Tank struggle with? What does Apoc struggle with? What does Mouse struggle with? What does Dozer struggle with?

I forgot that entering the Matrix involved a loss of control of your own subconscious and thus allowed memories you are unable to control to rise to the surface and adversely effect the mission. My bad.

Stop imposing the rules of one film world on those of another. I figured you were smarter than that. Either I was wrong, or you know that you are, and have no direct rebuttal to my complaints of Inception.

The information is made explicit. The engineer creates the environment. The mark fills it with their subconscious. No one else that participates seems to have any influence on the dream world. Think of it as a Facebook Event with two Admins.

So who is the engineer, the dreamer or the architect? It can't be the dreamer since Page alters Leo's dream, and it's can't be the architect because Leo alters his own dream.

What would happen to Michael Corleone if he decided not to avenge his father? A return to ordinary life with Kay.

Sonny would have taken control of the family business, and his hotheadedness would have got him killed like it eventually did. Fredo would be the next in line and he is too weak-minded to manage such a large empire, so Sollozzo would have walked into Vito's hospital room right past Enzo the baker and killed Vito, thus forever damaging the family's power and allowing Sollozzo to rise to the top of the criminal food chain, which in turn forever endangers the lives of all those involved with the Corleone family, particularly Michael and Kay.

What would happen to Luke Skywalker if he decided not to accompany Obiwan to save the princess?

He would have returned to the farm to find his family dead and his home burning. He would never accomplish his life-long dream of fighting against the Empire. Leia would never be rescued, but killed instead, thus forever damaging the Rebel's power and allowing the Empire to rise in power. He would have never destroyed the Death Star, and it's safe to assume that the Rebels would not even attempt such an attack with Leia dead and gone.

Let's do Inception next.

I'm talking about Inception right now. I don't want to talk about The Godfather or George Lucas or Solaris or even The Matrix. I want to talk about Inception. When you're ready to do that, let me know.

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I forgot that entering the Matrix involved a loss of control of your own subconscious and thus allowed memories you are unable to control to rise to the surface and adversely effect the mission. My bad.

I am directly addressing your claim that no stakes exist for characters other than Leo. I directly addressed that with points concerning the specific stakes. Now I am directly addressing it by referencing a film you claim bettered INCEPTION at its own game with examples of characters within that have no personal stake in the story. At least no stake beyond "machines are bad yo! Neo is the one!" which is not any more significant than "if we end up in limbo we're all fukked".

Stop imposing the rules of one film world on those of another... I'm talking about Inception right now. I don't want to talk about George Lucas or Solaris or even The Matrix. I want to talk about Inception. When you're ready to do that, let me know.

This coming from the guy who spent most of his initial assessment rambling about THE MATRIX.

I figured you were smarter than that. Either I was wrong, or you know that you are, and have no direct rebuttal to my complaints of Inception.

See above for extensive direct rebuttals.

So who is the engineer, the dreamer or the architect? It can't be the dreamer since Page alters Leo's dream, and it's can't be the architect because Leo alters his own dream.

Ariadne is the architect. She creates the world of the dream. I think you are referring to two different dreams here. In the training dream, Ariadne is the architect and Cobb is the dreamer. Thus Ariadne is able to bend cities. Later in the film, Ariadne enters Cobb's solo dream illicitly. That is if you're referring to the part where she witnesses the hotel room in the basement. If that's not what you're talking about then please clarify.

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Let's do Inception next.

Sigh. If Cobb does not successfully pull off Saito's inception gig, he will never have a chance of clearing his name and going home to his children.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I am directly addressing your claim that no stakes exist for characters other than Leo. I directly addressed that with points concerning the specific stakes. Now I am directly addressing it by referencing a film you claim bettered INCEPTION at its own game with examples of characters within that have no personal stake in the story. At least no mistake beyond "machines are bad yo! Neo is the one!" which is not any more significant than "if we end up in limbo we're all fukked".

I was specifically talking about the mission. Nobody gains anything by going on this perilous journey except Leo. Nobody at all loses anything if it fails.

In The Matrix, everyone is counting on Neo being The One to save them from the constant onslaught of the machines. Swich wants him to be The One so she can not live in constant danger. Same with Mouse, Tank, etc. Cypher has his own problems - he wants to go back in to the dream world permanently, and stands to gain an ordinary life - exactly what everyone else gains if Neo succeeds in being The One.

Ariadne is the architect. She creates the world of the dream. I think you are referring to two different dreams here. In the training dream, Ariadne is the architect and Cobb is the dreamer. Thus Ariadne is able to bend cities. Later in the film, Ariadne enters Cobb's solo dream illicitly. That is if you're referring to the part where she witnesses the hotel room in the basement. If that's not what you're talking about then please clarify.

Leo causes the fruit stands to explode and all crazy stuff to happen right before Page bends the city streets over on themselves.

Sigh. If Cobb does not successfully pull off Saito's inception gig, he will never have a chance of clearing his name and going home to his children.

In other words, he goes right back to where he was before entering the inception gig instead of something much more dire happening.

That is just one reason why The Godfather and Star Wars are as good as they are and Inception is not.

[Why One]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Anyone approaching any movie with enough cynicism can pick flaws with it. THE MATRIX wasn't immune to criticism when it was released. Should've heard what the cynical screenwriters of the day said about it back then.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Anyone approaching any movie with enough cynicism can pick flaws with it.

I never want any film to suck. Period.

I'm just a man holding a mirror.

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I was specifically talking about the mission. Nobody gains anything by going on this perilous journey except Leo. Nobody at all loses anything if it fails.

In The Matrix, everyone is counting on Neo being The One to save them from the constant onslaught of the machines. Swich wants him to be The One so she can not live in constant danger. Same with Mouse, Tank, etc. Cypher has his own problems - he wants to go back in to the dream world permanently, and stands to gain an ordinary life - exactly what everyone else gains if Neo succeeds in being The One.

Funny, because I'm with Cypher in THE MATRIX. Why the hell do I want to live in the real world when the machines have been kind enough to design a pitch perfect pseudo-reality for me to live in? Oh sure, the sweaty Zion raves are a gas, but the rest of the time it's military drudgery and the worst fashion this side of Shantytown.

Leo causes the fruit stands to explode and all crazy stuff to happen right before Page bends the city streets over on themselves.

Ariadne causes stuff to go boom when she panics. Cobb didn't do that.

I gotta go. But I've made more than my share of a rebuttal for your "obvious" flaws. Someone else feel free to pick up the baton.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Ariadne causes stuff to go boom when she panics. Cobb didn't do that.

Page panicked because Leo made stuff go boom.

The fact that this is even under discussion only highlights the weak screenwriter's inability to clarify an important aspect of the rules of the film.