INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

For me, Cobb's 'relationship' with his wife, and their deeply conflicting views about reality and what to do about it, were the most interesting and engaging parts of the movie. I saw big stakes in that part of the plot; namely, whether the two of them would reconcile and reunite in true reality. I only wish this aspect of the story had been more fully developed. That's the story I became interested in. Sadly, it was woefully underdeveloped. In that sense, I agree with your point that the movie did not live up to its potential. I didn't care much about the "mission" and whether Cobb lost his focus on it. All of that stuff was very clever, but not very involving.

I very much agree with you. Leo and his wife is inherently more engaging than the caper itself because Leo is the only character with anything at stake. So whatever he does and wherever he goes, we feel compelled to follow. This detracts from the actual concept of the film (planting the idea) by orders of magnitude. The moment Leo stops being an active participant in the mission, we have no reason to care.

Fundamental - keep the hero actively involved in the pursuit of his/her goal at all times. Inception willingly defies this notion, and the negative effects are a clear indication as to why it is so important to adhere to what works.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I think you are confusing your personal tastes with high standards, Bio.

You merely like what you like and don't like what you don't like; just like everyone else. Nothing wrong with that.

Did you even read this?

http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...&postcount=429

[Twofingeredtypist]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I very much agree with you. Leo and his wife is inherently more engaging than the caper itself because Leo is the only character with anything at stake. So whatever he does and wherever he goes, we feel compelled to follow. This detracts from the actual concept of the film (planting the idea) by orders of magnitude. The moment Leo stops being an active participant in the mission, we have no reason to care.

Fundamental - keep the hero actively involved in the pursuit of his/her goal at all times. Inception willingly defies this notion, and the negative effects are a clear indication as to why it is so important to adhere to what works.

Doesn't Cobb go into Limbo with Ariadne to find Fischer because he knows Mal will have him (and she does)? I seem to recall he completes his mission by getting Fischer out before dealing with his issues with Mal.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Doesn't Cobb go into Limbo with Ariadne to find Fischer because he knows Mal will have him (and she does)? I seem to recall he completes his mission by getting Fischer out before dealing with his issues with Mal.

The point is that Leo's goal is (or should be) to plant the idea in Cillian's head.

Leo doesn't plant the idea in Cillian's head.

[Twofingeredtypist]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

The point is that Leo's goal is (or should be) to plant the idea in Cillian's head.

Leo doesn't plant the idea in Cillian's head.

Eh? It's Cobb's actions that enable Fischer to enter the mind safe to plant the idea into his own head. That's the only way an inception would work. This is established in the film earlier.

[Mycroftbrett]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

I very much agree with you. Leo and his wife is inherently more engaging than the caper itself because Leo is the only character with anything at stake. So whatever he does and wherever he goes, we feel compelled to follow. This detracts from the actual concept of the film (planting the idea) by orders of magnitude. The moment Leo stops being an active participant in the mission, we have no reason to care.

Fundamental - keep the hero actively involved in the pursuit of his/her goal at all times. Inception willingly defies this notion, and the negative effects are a clear indication as to why it is so important to adhere to what works.

The movie is well received and is making money despite the fact that it defies your formulaic ideal. Exposing the failure of your formula is not a "negative effect" for anyone but you.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

The movie is well received and is making money despite the fact that it defies your formulaic ideal. Exposing the failure of your formula is not a "negative effect" for anyone but you.

Bad movies make money all the time. That doesn't make them any better. It make them more profitable, which has zero to do with the shortcomings in the screenplay of a film.

It's like using Fahrenheit to measure circumference - you can't do it.

[SuperScribe]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

It's like using Fahrenheit to measure circumference - you can't do it.

Betcha I can.

[Biohazard]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Betcha I can.

You can do anything you set your mind to.

I once calculated the distance of the planets with a sphygmomanometer.

I guess I was right.

[SuperScribe]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Is it bad that the word "sphincter" is now lodged in my temporal lobe?

[Gwai Lo]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Is it bad that the word "sphincter" is now lodged in my temporal lobe?

Better than having a temporal lobe lodged in your sphincter.

[thirdman23]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Don't take everything so personally, Gwai Lo. I made a general statement, not an attack. We're all friends, here.

Anyway...


Film is a medium of 'works' and 'doesn't work'.

Inception doesn't work in these regards:

1 - The hero stops actively pursuing his goal of planting the idea. Instead, he goes gallivanting with his dead wife. This is a problem because he is the only one with anything at stake, and because nothing he does or could possibly do with his wife gets the team any closer to planting the idea. It's essentially a waste of time - and felt like one, too.

The plant was done at that point - either Fischer was going to project his father to tell him to split the company, or not. Cobb knew that. And he didn't stop to gallivant with his dead wife, he stopped to find Saito, so he could achieve his original goal of being with his children. You are specifically referring to a scene where he "lets go" of his wife to pursue Saito in Limbo. Like most things you've said about the film so far, your statement is just flat-out wrong, such as attributing the train in Level 1 to Fischer's subconcious.

2 - Tied to 1, nobody besides Leo loses anything if the plan fails or gains anything if the plan succeeds. The secondary characters solve the problem for the hero, and they are all cut-outs - no reason to care for any of them. Leo could have stayed home and did a word find and saved himself the trouble of even going on the mission in the first place. Why does he have to be there if his team does everything for him anyway?

The stakes for the secondary characters are exactly as they are in all caper films: money. It's no different than Ocean's 11 - the main character is pulling the caper for selfish, ulterior motives; the rest of the group goes along a) for money b) because they enjoy the ride. The audience does likewise.

Furthermore, the stakes were upped at that point as the reality of being stuck in limbo for eternity was a possibility for all of them.

And as for Cobb not doing anything to help the team - he's the one that pulled the Mr. Charles and convinced Fischer to go into Level 3 with them. Not to mention he saved Fischer from Limbo. So, basically he did the two biggest things in the entire scam, aside from Eames portraying Browning.

3 - The concept was not exploited to its maximum dramatic potential. There are numerous instances where greater conflict could arise, thus creating a deeper interest and investment in the film, but this was constantly turned down in favor of more mundane events.

Again, another vague, meaningless, cookie-cutter response lacking substance. Explain how or what you mean. The stakes rose at each stage; Fischer having been trained against extraction; Saito getting shot, Cobb having to pull a Mr. Charles, gravity forcing Arthur to improvise; the team having to expedite their plans in level 3; Ariadne and Cobb going into limbo to save Fischer; Cobb sticking around in Fischer to find Saito, etc., etc. There wasn't anything mundane about it.

4 - The exposition was boring as sin.

In your opinion.

[Terrance Mulloy]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

The only perfect movie is ZOMBIE STRIPPERS.

Marry me, sweetheart.

[hscope]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

Did you even read this?

http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/...&postcount=429

Yes. You expressed your opinion very well.

[asjah8]

Re: INCEPTION - Nolan's masterpiece!

it sure gets heated in here.

walk it backwards...

the way you get stuck in limbo is if your mind can't escape when you die.

in the very beginning of the film, cobb wakes up half-drowned on a beach. the question is, how did he get there? why was he half-drowned? in the second level the van went into the water...

it's pretty much accepted that the kids & his father weren't real at the end for solid reasons (they didn't age, they were exactly the same, etc)... then ariadne, arthur, the father, yusef and saito couldn't have been real because cobb interacted with them on that level. the father introduced him to ariadne. cobb recruited the team. saito hired him.

and here's the clincher (for me at least)... how can cobb be with his kids when he has to go to limbo to save saito, then get hired by saito to be with his kids, only to lose saito to limbo so he has to go get him?

my take on the film: the spinning top is a metaphor for cobb's pseudo-reality; the stairs are a metaphor for his paradox.