Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

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  • #46
    Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

    Originally posted by scripto80 View Post
    The potential downside however, is that Hollywood tends to learn the wrong lessons most of the time. The last thing I want execs to pull from this is the idea that the audience should both fund AND purchase tickets to ALL films. This was a long time coming labor of love for the fans and creators and stars, and it could work with other old tv or movie properties people are desperate to revive or keep going, but it can't be seen as the new way to fund films that studios simply want to save money on yet still reap all the rewards.

    i.e. FOX: "If you want to see X-Men 4, you the fans will need to fund the first $5 million."

    The hard fact is, execs will avoid spending wherever possible, and do whatever they can to increase profit margins even if it means ripping off writers, directors, etc and what happened today could show them a new way to take advantage of a new contributor: the audience. That being said...let's hope that's not the case.
    This was exactly my thinking when I first heard about the VM fundraising effort. Craig pretty much said the same thing in the latest Scriptnotes podcast.

    In a world where executives are bragging about nickel-and-diming screenwriters with the race-to-the-bottom practice of one-step deals in order to save a few extra dollars in development costs, it doesn't take a genius to see those same executives grinning evilly at the success of this Kickstarter campaign and deciding to employ the same tactics with every future project as a litmus test to see if they can skirt any initial investment on their part.

    But since this is the Neo Dark Ages where average citizens have allowed themselves to be talked out of the very unions that protected their financial interests and have yet to storm Wall Street by the millions to demand the return of the money stolen from their Treasury, sure, why not, let's make donations to mega-corporations so they don't have to pay a nickel or dime in development because in the end we get a T-shirt.

    The internet has given the average citizen access to vast amounts of information that we've never had before, but it sure hasn't made us smarter as a species.

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    • #47
      Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

      Excuse me for sounding cynical, but I think this Kickstarter campaign was more about creating buzz than generating funds. With all the remakes they've been doing with TV shows for years (from Dukes of Hazzard to Get Smart and so many more), they would have gotten around to doing Veronica Mars with or without Kickstarter. Maybe this pushed it up a bit, but I do believe it would have been done anyway.

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      • #48
        Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

        Originally posted by Pasquali56 View Post
        Excuse me for sounding cynical, but I think this Kickstarter campaign was more about creating buzz than generating funds. With all the remakes they've been doing with TV shows for years (from Dukes of Hazzard to Get Smart and so many more), they would have gotten around to doing Veronica Mars with or without Kickstarter. Maybe this pushed it up a bit, but I do believe it would have been done anyway.
        Thomas has been pushing hard make this movie for 6 years now, with no success. Two years ago he himself said that the idea of a movie was dead: It was not going to be made. The DVD sales on series were not good enough, and despite Joel Silver pushing the film hard, the studios weren't warming up to it. There was no interest.

        Wikipedia has a pretty detailed history on this.

        Veronica Mars is quite different from Dukes and Get Smart, which were big, classic series with three decades of repeats on TV, and much bigger name recognition.

        So in other words: No, this film wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter.

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        • #49
          Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

          Originally posted by scripto80 View Post
          The potential downside however, is that Hollywood tends to learn the wrong lessons most of the time. The last thing I want execs to pull from this is the idea that the audience should both fund AND purchase tickets to ALL films. This was a long time coming labor of love for the fans and creators and stars, and it could work with other old tv or movie properties people are desperate to revive or keep going, but it can't be seen as the new way to fund films that studios simply want to save money on yet still reap all the rewards.

          i.e. FOX: "If you want to see X-Men 4, you the fans will need to fund the first $5 million."

          The hard fact is, execs will avoid spending wherever possible, and do whatever they can to increase profit margins even if it means ripping off writers, directors, etc and what happened today could show them a new way to take advantage of a new contributor: the audience. That being said...let's hope that's not the case.
          I don't really see how this could happen.

          Anyone who is contributing at Kickstarter is doing it because of their free will. They do it because they *want to*.

          I know some people find it strange to contribute to something that hasn't been made yet, but there are several reasons to do so:

          A) People want to see the film made.

          B) Once you give $25-50, you typically get either theater ticket or DVD/Blueray/digital download of the film. You pay more than that, you start getting all kinds of extra stuff that some people like.

          C) People take pride on the fact that they helped to get the film made. It gives them personal satisfaction.

          If Fox would demand getting 5 million at Kickstarter before X-men 4 would get greenlighted (A scenario which obviously would never happen, even if it would be automatically successful), that 5 million would be collected from people who *want* to contribute. They would know that the film would get made anyway, but they would embrace the concept of having helped to get the film made, along with all the nice extra stuff.

          A more likely scenario would be the studio demanding 5 million before Dredd 2 would get made. And hell, they would probably get 15 million easily. And that 15 million could actually allow them to make a sequel that is otherwise very unlikely to happen. A lot of people on this board would like to see that sequel.

          If studios are able to cut down their production costs on movies due to Kickstarter, that means their movies are more profitable. And that means they can make more movies. And that means more work for a lot of people, including screenwriters.

          I still fail to see any downsides to any of this.

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          • #50
            Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

            Or, to counter your argument, tuukka:

            The people of Finland would love to have a free health service, like Britain's NHS. No, not one where - as a tax payer - a citizen gets a discount on medicine (as is now the case), but a service in which everything is free.

            If a tourist gets hit by a bus in London, is taken by ambulance to hospital and then spends a week on a ward after surgery, that tourist was lucky enough to have this happen in Britain.

            So, for Finns to obtain this awesome service and wear a T-shirt in the pub, with bragging rights of saying, "We have an NHS because I donated,"let's ASK Finns to pay an extra 2% tax each year.

            Hey, it's totally optional, but if there's not enough money raised, the project never takes off.

            So, tuukka, would you personally be prepared to pay this extra tax?

            Would you pay Sony development costs if you got a T-shirt reading: my donation helped create the XXX TV?

            Get your head together, mate - Kickstarter was formed to kick-start the careers of unknowns, not to be exploited by already rich people who have fallen out of favour with the in-crowd or can't dream up a new concept.

            P.S. And this is Hollywood you're talking about... do you really think a Kickstarter campaign would lead to more back-end profits?
            How about instead: for lowering production costs, Producer X gets a bigger up-front fee. Oh, wait, now production costs have risen again...

            Dude, the really big global companies get rich and don't pay sh!t in corporation tax because of all the expenses. When a company's bosses are threatened with losing their cushy $5m per year, employees get fired to "save money". Back-end profits in Hollywood are a myth and everybody knows it... aside from Peter Jackson, apparently.
            Cufk, Tish, Sips.

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            • #51
              Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

              Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
              Or, to counter your argument, tuukka:

              The people of Finland would love to have a free health service, like Britain's NHS. No, not one where - as a tax payer - a citizen gets a discount on medicine (as is now the case), but a service in which everything is free.

              If a tourist gets hit by a bus in London, is taken by ambulance to hospital and then spends a week on a ward after surgery, that tourist was lucky enough to have this happen in Britain.

              So, for Finns to obtain this awesome service and wear a T-shirt in the pub, with bragging rights of saying, "We have an NHS because I donated,"let's ASK Finns to pay an extra 2% tax each year.

              Hey, it's totally optional, but if there's not enough money raised, the project never takes off.

              So, tuukka, would you personally be prepared to pay this extra tax?
              Health care is a matter of life and death, movies are not. Bad comparison.

              A better comparison would be whether you would be willing to give money to game developers so they can make a kickass RPG? It has already happened several times, the new Torment game is getting close to 4 million right now, and will end up with 5-6 million.

              Or would you be willing to donate money to your favorite artist, so he can make his new album? I know this has already happened in smaller scale projects.

              Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
              Would you pay Sony development costs if you got a T-shirt reading: my donation helped create the XXX TV?

              Get your head together, mate - Kickstarter was formed to kick-start the careers of unknowns, not to be exploited by already rich people who have fallen out of favour with the in-crowd or can't dream up a new concept.
              Kickstarter was formed to kick-start *projects*, not careers. It was never meant to be a launching pad for unknowns.

              The makers of Project Eternity and Torment are highly accomplished game-makers, who simply didn't get financing for an old-school RPG through game studios.

              Rob Thomas has had an active career post-Veronica Mars. He's probably rich. the makers of Project Eternity and Torment probably aren't. None of them have fallen out of favor with the in-crowd, and Project Eternity is not based on any kind of pre-existing brand.

              Personally, I don't feel comfortable bad-mouthing the people responsible for aforementioned projects. They are talented, hard-working pros who have gained support from their fans, because they have delivered quality on the past.

              Originally posted by Grandmaster View Post
              P.S. And this is Hollywood you're talking about... do you really think a Kickstarter campaign would lead to more back-end profits?
              How about instead: for lowering production costs, Producer X gets a bigger up-front fee. Oh, wait, now production costs have risen again.../QUOTE]

              Dude, the really big global companies get rich and don't pay sh!t in corporation tax because of all the expenses. When a company's bosses are threatened with losing their cushy $5m per year, employees get fired to "save money". Back-end profits in Hollywood are a myth and everybody knows it... aside from Peter Jackson, apparently.
              It's the same with all entertainment industries: Movies, gaming, music, etc. The more money a company makes, the more money they have that they can spend on more projects. The more money they have, the more people they will hire.

              Most companies aim for growth. There is no growth without expanding product library.

              This is pretty easy to verify by reading on the history of almost any entertainment company.

              Just looking at the aforementioned three projects, each one is able to hire more people, because they got more money than they originally asked for. They were able to expand the scope of the project, thus needing more workers. So unless someone is actively against people getting more work on the film and gaming industry, on cool-sounding projects that people are obviously excited about, I fail to see how any of this is a bad thing.
              Last edited by tuukka; 03-23-2013, 10:34 AM.

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              • #52
                Re: Veronica Mars Movie (Kickstarter Fund)

                The studios aren't going to be using Kickstarter to finance their tentpoles. It won't be used to finance Superman 2 or Iron Man 4.

                The reason WB allowed Rob to use Kickstarter to fund Veronica Mars is because they had zero intention of ever making it. They let Rob do it and said if you get the money, they will distribute it.

                Might we see someone like a Shawn Ryan use Kickstarter to finance a movie of The Shield? Maybe, he said he was thinking about it on Twitter. But again, that's because the studio has zero intentions of doing so.

                I was a huge fan of Joss Whedon's Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel. I'd happily donate $35 on Kickstarter to see one of those and get a digital copy of the film.

                Kickstarter may be a great way to get films that otherwise wouldn't be made going, but it's not something that will derail the studio system. The studio's won't be crowd sourcing their films.

                Best,

                MB
                twitter.com/mbotti

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