A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

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  • #16
    Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

    Originally posted by jtwg50 View Post
    Tochirta: It is not condescension to note that if you don't understand why "American Hustle" or "Wolf of Wall Street" or "Nebraska" are excellent films (hence their acknowledgment with Oscar nominations), you are probably in the wrong line of aspiration as a screenwriter. If you can't even recognize a very well crafted film when you see one, how do you expect to ever write one?
    And for you to dismiss "Hustle" after it got 10 Oscar nominations is just laughable to me. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how ill-informed it is.
    so the barometer of what makes a great, well crafted film is the Oscars? and given the fact that the Oscars HAVE to nominate some films every year, the films' inherent qualities over time (staying power past their year of nomination/win) and especially in comparison to previous years are irrelevant. I don't doubt that Gravity was one of the best films of 2013 but then again, I thought 2013 was an abysmal year.

    Please be clear on what you're basing your argument on. Any screenwriter that rushes to "well it was nominated by the Oscars" as an argument needs to consider your not-so-condescending advice.

    and he who laughs last laughs best.

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    • #17
      Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

      Richmond, you don't like Kurosawa's films???

      You're dead to me.



      On the topic of this thread, I haven't seen several of those films yet, but I thought American Hustle was quite weak. Some good performances, but a weak film. And Gravity was many things, but "intelligent" isn't the first that comes to mind. Despite of the visual candy, the story was quite underwhelming, I thought.

      I thought Inside Llewyn Davis was great. Prisoners was also pretty good. I didn't think The Spectacular Now was a great film, but there were some great scenes and acting there.

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      • #18
        Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

        Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
        On the topic of this thread, I haven't seen several of those films yet, but I thought American Hustle was quite weak. Some good performances, but a weak film. And Gravity was many things, but "intelligent" isn't the first that comes to mind. Despite of the visual candy, the story was quite underwhelming, I thought.
        you're an idiot and you must leave Done Deal at once!

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        • #19
          Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

          Tochirta: I don't suffer fools well, so I will let my comments stand as posted. There's really nothing more that can be said to someone like you. And since I'm now a working screenwriter who makes my living at it and just had his first film completed, with another going into production in May -- and aims to win Oscars -- I'll focus on my own career and leave yours to you.

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          • #20
            Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

            Originally posted by Tochirta View Post
            I thought they were crap. I didn't say you had to think they were crap. What exactly is the problem here?

            From a story perspective, American Hustle and Gravity were flimsy and boring. I'm glad y'all liked it, and that's fine. But please don't tell me those films are the pinnacle of screenwriting and I'm somehow missing a crucial element of craft by not liking them.

            just stop.
            American Hustle was ****ing fantastic. Some people loved it some people hated it, I really don't care, I loved it and that's all that matters...to me.

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            • #21
              Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

              I think actually there are a number of "intelligent" flicks made every year. There is probably, for someone who would want to research it, a healthy balance of all genres in any given year. I think the difference is what kind of attention / box office these "intelligent" films get. Either way, the paradigm is not likely to change any time soon, imo.

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              • #22
                Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                Originally posted by Geoff Alexander View Post
                American Hustle was ****ing fantastic. Some people loved it some people hated it, I really don't care, I loved it and that's all that matters...to me.
                That's the thing, it's hard to argue about taste. I wish I liked it instead of being bored by it.

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                • #23
                  Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                  Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                  That's the thing, it's hard to argue about taste. I wish I liked it instead of being bored by it.
                  True. But by the same token you didn't bash a bunch of films you've seen, ignore the fact that trash films don't get nominated for multiple Oscars, and then dismiss a bunch of films you haven't seen.

                  Even if a film doesn't outwardly appeal - as with Hustle, Wolf, Mr Banks, Rush - I'm going to reconsider when they're so highly regarded (especially by fellow aspiring screenwriters). As Tochirta slates so many films seen and unseen it's completely valid to ask what films he/she actually likes and writes.
                  Last edited by SundownInRetreat; 02-23-2014, 05:17 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                    Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                    Richmond, you don't like Kurosawa's films???

                    You're dead to me.
                    Yeah, I know. I can't explain it. I just can't get into his flicks. (Except for DREAMS. For some reason I like that one a lot.)

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                    • #25
                      Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                      Yes, for some reason I can't get into Hitchcock's either.

                      @Sundown: although I'm always curious about the films and scripts nominated for the Oscars, I don't think the Oscars are a clear indication of their quality. There's been some pretty questionable winners in any category, and there's sometimes a very transparent agenda. Like Bill said, it's a popularity contest.

                      Also, about films that are highly regarded: I'm sure you've probably noticed that, nowadays, every single film is highly regarded, there's always someone willing to call it "a masterpiece," not just in message boards but also professional reviewers and critics. We live in an age of low standards, or at least one where raving reviews are cheap (I don't mean they're paid for, just that there's too many of them). I don't know that it was different in the past, but time always puts things in their place. In twenty years nobody will be talking about Avatar beyond its role in the development of 3D filming.

                      But I get what you mean.

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                      • #26
                        Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                        Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                        Yes, for some reason I can't get into Hitchcock's either.
                        Really? I would have guessed he was right up your alley for some reason.

                        Have you seen Rear Window? That's the one that made me love him.

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                        • #27
                          Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                          Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post
                          Also, about films that are highly regarded: I'm sure you've probably noticed that, nowadays, every single film is highly regarded, there's always someone willing to call it "a masterpiece," not just in message boards but also professional reviewers and critics. We live in an age of low standards, or at least one where raving reviews are cheap (I don't mean they're paid for, just that there's too many of them). I don't know that it was different in the past, but time always puts things in their place. In twenty years nobody will be talking about Avatar beyond its role in the development of 3D filming.
                          exactly. I'm VERY skeptical of hype nowadays.

                          I find it hilarious that people are so quick to overrate shows/movies. Meanwhile, I remember when The Wire was on TV, and it got little-to-no critical acclaim. It got snubbed by the Emmys. And The Wire is clearly one of the best TV shows EVER made. EVER.

                          meanwhile, from the first episode of True Detective/Breaking Bad, it's "omg this is the greatest show ever!"

                          please. I'm so tired of it.

                          Originally posted by SundownInRetreat View Post
                          As Tochirta slates so many films seen and unseen it's completely valid to ask what films he/she actually likes and writes.
                          that's a very good question. And I'll just say that I may post some stuff later to get an opinion. If you'd like I can PM you.

                          I don't write derivative crap, that's for sure. It may not be great (yet), and I'm always learning to write better, but nothing I write is derivative.

                          There's so much stuff being made now that strikes me as derivative crap. Whether it be mainstream or indie. I'm thinking: "I've seen this story a thousand times" or it's subject matter that's really arcane or not-so-relevant to the major issues of the world today. And I'm thinking "who cares?"

                          And the level of craft isn't so superb for me to ignore that obvious problem.

                          Yes, there's no accounting for taste. Cinema is first a matter of taste, THEN a matter of craft. I don't like melodrama and histrionics. In my mind, I think 'this is a cheap and somewhat dishonest way to get your point across.' American Hustle to me was full of that stuff. Some people LOVE over-the-top acting performances. And that's cool.

                          I love nuance, but nuance that's to the point. Too vague is also a problem for me. In the middle works best.

                          I'm also an action junkie. So I'm very hesitant to watch slow-burns and navelgazers. If it's a slow burn of some guy living in the forest, I just don't give a f*ck. If it's a slow burn examining a larger issue and the drama's really potent, I will watch happily.

                          Things I sorta liked this year (I already mentioned 12 Years a Slave):

                          Star Trek - Into Darkness. I have to say the plot was pretty engaging. It wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I found myself interested in what was going on. I'm not a Trekkie and I don't have extensive knowledge of the ST universe. But I found Khan intimidating and cool. It was my first time seeing Cumberbatch and I thought "Huh.... who is this guy? He's good."

                          I liked (not loved, but liked) the fight scenes in Man of Steel. To me, some of the best "epic" fight scenes I've seen in a long time.

                          Prisoners - A decent movie that kinda falls apart in the 3rd act imo.

                          Lone Ranger - Surprisingly a good movie. Didn't blow my socks off but I thought the writing was very strong given that it's popcorn movie in the vein of Pirates.

                          Wolf of Wall Street - Very topical film, and I love topical films. There's nothing better than watching a movie that feels relevant to what's going on in the world. I feel like this movie could have been really great, but it settled for displays of debauchery rather than narrative. I wanted to know how Belfort really made his money, the effect on his victims, if he ever encountered his victims directly, and a deeper examination on the business practices of "Wall Street" etc. Bottom line, I found there was not enough insight.

                          Insight dramatized. That's what I crave in films.

                          If there's something I absolutely must see, please recommend. I'm watching the Act of Killing now. I may get around to seeing "Her."

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                          • #28
                            Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                            @Anagram: I think I've watched most Hitchcock's films, but I just find his style has aged badly. Recently I revisited Vertigo and I was just so bored by it. It's just not my thing, I guess.

                            To me, Kurosawa or Bergman are way above Hichcock as filmmakers and auteurs. And the Apartment or Sunset Boulevard are way better than anything Hitchcock made.

                            And now someone could come and make a compelling case about how Hitchcock blows them all out of the water. It's all a matter of taste in the end.

                            Somewhere I've read this quote, apparently from Chekhov: "I know two kinds of art: art that I like and art that I don't." Or something along those lines.

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                            • #29
                              Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                              Originally posted by Dr. Vergerus View Post

                              And now someone could come and make a compelling case about how Hitchcock blows them all out of the water. It's all a matter of taste in the end.
                              True. I think a lot of Hitchcock has NOT aged, that it's still some of the sharpest, fastest dialogue you can find on screen, and that sexual tension is often an incredibly strong element in his films. To me NOTORIOUS is his best: romantic as hell, suspenseful, gorgeous, funny in parts, with some famous camera moves and one of the most famous kisses in cinema.

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                              • #30
                                Re: A fantastic year for intelligent adult films

                                Originally posted by Tochirta View Post

                                Lone Ranger - Surprisingly a good movie. Didn't blow my socks off but I thought the writing was very strong given that it's popcorn movie in the vein of Pirates.

                                Funny you should mention Lone Ranger. When it came out and got panned, we didn't see it in the theater. Especially since our 6th grade girl doesn't like westerns. ("Not enough action!" she says, "Nothing gets blown up!") But last night we were scrounging around On Demand for something to watch as a family. Though the kid was still resistant, we sold her on it.

                                We all enjoyed it. The kid was having a grand old time with it and was happy to see things blow up. As a popcorn move it works.
                                Advice from writer, Kelly Sue DeConnick. "Try this: if you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.-

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