#OscarsSoWhite

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  • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

    Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
    Riiight. And how many of the above-mentioned films were independent films (usually with limited distribution and lower marketing budgets) vs. studio films?
    Not that it matters, but the grosses of the films I mentioned were embarrassingly low, even by independent standards.

    Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
    Oh, and what about "Fifty Shades of Grey"?
    And what about "Cinderella"?
    And what about "Spy"?
    And what about "Pitch Perfect 2"?
    And what about "Trainwreck"?
    And what about "Mad Max"?
    And what about "Sicario"?
    And what about "Mockingjay Part 2"?
    And what about "Joy"?
    And what about "Sisters"?

    Boy, a lotta female-driven films sure fell off your radar.

    You also conspicuously failed to mention the many minority-driven box-office hits featuring people of color. Wonder why?
    I'm not a newspaper journalist, who supposedly have editorial standards they adhere to (or they used to). I'm an anonymous dummy on a message board. When I see newspaper stories like this:

    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/fe...en-1201610849/

    who conveniently forget to mention all the female driven films that tanked (again, a lie of omission), or at least mention the fact that at the end of the day this whole business is a crap shoot at best, I see them for the agenda driven propaganda machines that they are.

    I didn't forget to mention anything. The knock against African American-driven films is and always has been that they don't play well outside the United States. Based on the overseas grosses of Creed and Straight Outta Compton, that assumption is completely correct.

    And in an era where films are expected to make 70% of their money overseas, you can understand the concern of studio execs.

    I'm in the camp that the studios shouldn't be beholden to the overseas crowds. It's the very reason that the number of 'quality' dramatic films produced by Hollywood is diminishing, and we're being served more dumb spectacles with exploding robots. Make more films, with smaller budgets, for everyone, I say.

    That's what the journalists should be writing about, not this imaginary racist boogeyman.

    Comment


    • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

      Your arguments are weak at best.

      You purposely ignored the numerous female-driven box office hits that came out last year, which are evidence there is an audience for such films. Defeating your attempt to frame such films as inherently unprofitable.

      As for minority-led films, there's another genre of films that don't make as much money overseas as they do domestic -- comedy. But Hollywood continues to churn out those. So that's just a bull**** excuse.
      "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

      Comment


      • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

        Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
        As for minority-led films, there's another genre of films that don't make as much money overseas as they do domestic -- comedy. But Hollywood continues to churn out those. So that's just a bull**** excuse.
        Ha..... Speaking of BS, comedies frequently do very well overseas (off the top of my head, TED, Horrible Bosses, 22 Jump Street, the Hangover movies). Not saying they make MORE overseas, but they do very very well (unlike SOC and Creed).

        2015 was a terrible year for studio comedies (Vacation, Ted 2, Entourage, Unfinished Business). And even the films that did ok (Wedding Ringer, Get Hard) took heat for being too offensive / unfunny.

        Not sure what's on the radar for 2016 comedy-wise, but unless Mellissa McCarthy starts making 4 films a year, we're in trouble.

        Comment


        • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

          I'm actually done responding to you. I'm not interested in debating people with a history of bigoted comments, and your last one about all minorities running to HR for every perceived slight frankly took the cake (but at least it made it clear for all to see). I'm sorry I broke my pledge. Good riddance.
          "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

          Comment


          • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

            Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
            I'm actually done responding to you. I'm not interested in debating people with a history of bigoted comments, and your last one about all minorities running to HR for every perceived slight frankly took the cake (but at least it made it clear for all to see). I'm sorry I broke my pledge. Good riddance.
            Totally cool with me. You're allowed to disagree. You're also allowed to be offended. I'm allowed to not care.

            The #1 most oft repeated phrase among social activists (and especially people talking about #OscarsSoWhite) is an expression of how we need to "have a conversation" or "open a dialogue" and lots of other well-meaning platitudes.

            Which is easy and nice for them, as long as we never get around to actually having that conversation. That would mean confronting ideas different than your own.

            In an age where people spend 90% of their online time interacting with each other via social media, where they can ban, block, delete, ignore, report, or unfriend any person or viewpoint that conflicts with theirs, it's no wonder we'll never make any progress.

            Comment


            • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

              Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
              The beautiful thing about conversations like this is that it allows me to identify new members of the DDP ignorance list. And with this specific thread, that list has grown by bounds.
              [/FONT]
              This seems at once uncalled for and unprofessional. Wise old Hollywood saying: "If you haven't anything nice to say, say nothing at all."

              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
              In an age where people spend 90% of their online time interacting with each other via social media, where they can ban, block, delete, ignore, report, or unfriend any person or viewpoint that conflicts with theirs, it's no wonder we'll never make any progress.
              This does seem to be the case.
              “Nothing is what rocks dream about” ― Aristotle

              Comment


              • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                Originally posted by UnequalProductions View Post
                It can and it can't. I keep going back to Will Smith for examples. Look at Independence Day. Would that movie have been any different if his character was played by a white guy? An Asian guy? Probably not.

                Then you have Wild Wild West. While a horrible movie, they realized that casting Will Smith there would have impacts on how other characters in the world would react to him, so they made it part of the story.

                There's no one answer to this question.
                I can see both points, there are scripts like independence day where it doesnt really matter, and some scripts where it would change the dynamic of it all. Fair enough.

                Now about whatever argument you guys are having, ill stay out of that lol
                "We're going to be rich!" - 1/2 hr COMEDY written/directed/edited by me, I also act in it.
                SUBTITLED
                Episode 1 (Beef pills)
                Episode 2 (African commercial)
                Episode 3 (Brenda's rescue)

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                • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                  Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
                  Oh, and what about "Fifty Shades of Grey"?
                  And what about "Cinderella"?
                  And what about "Spy"?
                  And what about "Pitch Perfect 2"?
                  And what about "Trainwreck"?
                  And what about "Mad Max"?
                  And what about "Sicario"?
                  And what about "Mockingjay Part 2"?
                  And what about "Joy"?
                  And what about "Sisters"?

                  Boy, a lotta female-driven films sure fell off your radar.
                  Uh, this kind of destroys the whole argument that Evil White Men are keeping everyone else down.

                  Comment


                  • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                    Originally posted by UpandComing View Post
                    1) A preference among decision-makers (from studio executives to TV showrunners) to hire people who are similar to them (i.e., white and male). This is why a white male director like Colin Trevorrow can score a gig like "Jurassic World" after having only one breakout indie hit in "Safety Not Guaranteed".
                    He wasn't hired because he was a white male. He was hired because Spielberg and Co. thought he was a good fit for the material.

                    Spielberg saw talent in Trevorrow just as, over 40 years earlier, Jerry Lewis saw talent in a young Spielberg (who had done almost nothing at the time) and raved about the inexperienced director in The Total Film-Maker.

                    To be fair, the fact that Jurassic World flopped so badly proves that their assessment was dead wrong, but that was the reasoning for the hire.
                    Last edited by MrZero; 01-30-2016, 05:50 PM. Reason: Spelling

                    Comment


                    • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                      Originally posted by MrZero View Post
                      Uh, this kind of destroys the whole argument that Evil White Men are keeping everyone else down.
                      No one said "Evil White Men" are keeping everyone down. If that's the takeaway you got from my back-and-forth, it's incredibly simplistic.

                      Originally posted by MrZero View Post
                      He wasn't hired because he was a white male. He was hired because Spielberg and Co. thought he was a good fit for the material.
                      I could've used a better example, but my point wasn't really meant to indicate he was hired because he was a white male. It was meant to indicate that as a white male, he has access to more and bigger opportunities than a woman and a person of color who has proven her talent beyond a reasonable doubt.
                      "I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork.-- Peter De Vries

                      Comment


                      • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                        Originally posted by Bairn_Writer View Post
                        Shouldn't the point be that in stories where race isn't a factor the character could be played by black, white, Hispanic etc with no change to the story or film and we should be aiming to have more non-white's represented in these situations so that it becomes 'normal' to see non-whites playing all types of character.
                        This had been my mindset up until about a year ago.

                        I thought that my job as a writer was to create the best, most three-dimensional characters I could, and then they could be cast (theoretically) to anyone, and that any casting decision, either by gender or race or age, that went against conventional wisdom, would only enhance the character dynamic.

                        I thought that those views made me progressive and liberal. You know, one of the 'good' guys.

                        But then you hear people (and I don't mean random internet trolls, I mean respected, working professionals like Lee Daniels) say that white writers have no business writing characters of color, and my initial reaction is one of knee-jerk anger, like who the F does Lee Daniels think he is? And I tune them out, no longer interested in their plight (which is unfortunate for people like Lee Daniels, because they're the ones trying to change MY mind, not the other way around).

                        Who is going to decide what the new rules are, and who gets to decide the deciders?

                        Comment


                        • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                          Originally posted by figment
                          Or you could decide to be a grown-up and stop acting like Lee Daniels, whom you don't know and have never met, is somehow responsible for how you write.

                          Lee Daniels is one person. People in life have differing opinions. He doesn't speak for all of Hollywood, or all of Britain, for that matter.

                          Just a hunch, but if in your mind a character is non-white, I'm pretty sure you could mention it in the character description. There, problem solved.
                          Of all the possible reactions a person could have to my statement, why would you choose angry condescension?

                          Why not say "Gee, I can see how you'd feel frustrated... It's obviously very complicated, and everyone has their own opinions.... Let's talk about how to get passed that feeling."

                          Lee Daniels isn't the problem. It's the sanctimonious rhetoric of the activists.

                          Comment


                          • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                            Here's a serious question, for people who are capable of serious answering:

                            We know that having no people of color among the major Oscar nominees is unacceptable.

                            We also know that having people of color nominated, who never actually win is unacceptable.

                            We also know that having people of color win once every three or four years is unacceptable (because it seems like a token gesture).

                            So the question is, do the winners of the 8 major categories have to include POC every year, or would it be acceptable if the averages fell to every other year?

                            And again, who is deciding this? How would we even begin to talk civilly about who gets to set the parameters?

                            Again, serious question for serious people.

                            Comment


                            • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                              Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post

                              But then you hear people (and I don't mean random internet trolls, I mean respected, working professionals like Lee Daniels) say that white writers have no business writing characters of color,

                              That is a ridiculous thing to say, so I should not write women roles because I am not a woman?

                              Guess that takes me writing any aliens in any script is also wrong as I cannot relate to their plight.

                              Or any gay characters.

                              Let me just write me, in all my characters, because at the end of the day the only one I can sympathize with is me.

                              And Kintner I'm not directing the sarcasm towards you, rather to the comment you quoted.

                              This does open up another convo, I believe people are actually all the same, the reason we act how we act, to me, at least in my theory has to do more with living conditions and experiences, I think if we all had the same experiences we would all literally be the same... But that is a script on its own.
                              Last edited by Mpimentel; 02-01-2016, 09:30 AM.
                              "We're going to be rich!" - 1/2 hr COMEDY written/directed/edited by me, I also act in it.
                              SUBTITLED
                              Episode 1 (Beef pills)
                              Episode 2 (African commercial)
                              Episode 3 (Brenda's rescue)

                              Comment


                              • Re: #OscarsSoWhite

                                Originally posted by Mpimentel View Post
                                That is a ridiculous thing to say, so I should not write women roles because I am not a woman?

                                Guess that takes me writing any aliens in any script as I also wrong as I can not relate to their plight.

                                Or any gay characters.

                                Let me just write me, in all my characters, because at the end of the day the only one I can sympathize with is me.
                                As much as I disagree with people who believe that white males have trouble empathizing with or writing from other people's viewpoints, I will concede that it's true that someone who has experienced something first hand will always tell a more informed version of that story.

                                And there's nothing scary about those people. At the end of the day Hollywood is a freelance meritocracy. You either have talent or you don't. You either execute it well, or you don't.

                                What is actually scary is when people (and there are many of them) say that white males opinions on diversity issues don't matter and should be ignored, because their views are clouded by their own privileged existence. That is a dangerous direction to take this conversation in.


                                Originally posted by figment
                                I'm a sanctimonious activist? There's a new one.

                                You claimed Lee Daniels was trying to change your mind.

                                No, he isn't. Lee Daniels has no clue who you are. He's expressing his opinion. But you've made him a problem to you.

                                So don't write a script for Lee Daniels. Since he writes many of his own anyway, I'm sure he won't miss yours.
                                Obviously my post had nothing to do with Lee Daniels (who, for the record, I do not believe knows me, and I do not believe is trying to change my mind).

                                I was merely naming him as an example of one of the many types of people involved in the diversity topic who do not believe there is any room for discussion or bargaining. They only believe in making demands and boycotting and other things that will ultimately do more harm than good.

                                The thing that has the Hollywood studios collectively wetting their pants right now is the specter of a Justice Department or ACLU-backed lawsuit.

                                However (and this is a purely hypothetical example, so, we're all going to put on our Imagination Hats here for a second) if that lawsuit ever came to fruition, it would be up to a jury made up of people like me to decide if there has been any injustice done.

                                And the great thing about our justice system is that the jurors who disagree with the plaintiff have a more powerful vote than the jurors who don't.

                                Therefore, it's up to the people who believe there has been an injustice done to convince the ones who don't. You can't ignore them, ban them, block them, unfriend them, report them to the mod or have them kicked off the jury.

                                You have to actually engage them and change their minds. Same thing applies for a referendum. The people who want change have to convince everyone else to vote their way.

                                And I don't think that anyone in Hollywood is up to the task, intellectually or emotionally.

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