Black Panther

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  • Black Panther

    let the sizzling WHITE hot takes commence . . .

  • #2
    Re: Black Panther

    Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
    let the sizzling WHITE hot takes commence . . .
    Well, given the lavish marketing campaign that Disney has devoted to it, it's a fair bet that, when the final numbers are tallied, the film will end up in the black.

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    • #3
      Re: Black Panther

      Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
      let the sizzling WHITE hot takes commence . . .
      Have you seen it JoeB.? Thoughts? Real thoughts, not jokes.

      I haven't seen it yet, not sure when I will get to. The trailer honestly doesn't look that good. Which is sad as I always thought this character was pretty interesting.

      I am worried though that people will be afraid to say anything negative about it for fear of backlash because of the times. (and before anyone starts on me I just want you all to know I am a multi-race person who feels people can voice their opinions without getting "barked at" no matter what their opinion is)

      The only "negative" review I have read said the overt tones are too overt and the cgi looks bad.

      I did read that if any critic gives disney a bad review they are banned from any future disney premieres. There is a word for that.....

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      • #4
        Re: Black Panther

        I missed all the fireworks with the Get Out thread, but there's a strong possibility of lightning striking twice.

        While I loved Chadwick Boseman's portrayal of T'Challa/Black Panther in Civil War, I'm probably a bigger Ryan Coogler fan. The guy has good instincts as a storyteller and collaborates with talented people on his projects. It's been fun watching him grow from Fruitvale Station, Creed, and now Black Panther.

        Big budget superhero blockbusters with predominantly black casts don't happen every day, so there's gonna be a bit of excitement involved.

        I've had more than my share of 'spirited discussions' on this board about how stories involving black people are perceived. Regardless of the subject matter or genre, if a trailer has too many black faces, it's a black-people-doing-black-people-things-in-a-black-way-I-won't-understand-movie. However, the same people have no problem watching black people play professional sports, sing, dance, and rap for hours. It's the weirdest thing ever.

        If someone doesn't want to watch Black Panther because the story feels predictable and the cgi looks iffy in spots, which it does, fine. But don't tell me it doesn't look relatable when you have no problem accepting talking raccoons and humanoid trees in space. Is the Marvel brand big enough to encourage a few closed-minded folks to give the movie a chance? Probably.

        I don't think anyone knows how this movie will perform domestically or internationally. The tracking is all over the place. So far so good in South Korea, where it had a better opening day than Doctor Strange, Thor Ragnarok, and Spider-man: Homecoming. It has the biggest opening day of 2018 in UK, and outgrossed opening days for Thor: Ragnarok and Deadpool.

        The reviewers I trust say Black Panther a good to above average Marvel movie. It's probably not going to 'revolutionize the blockbuster' but it might inspire some 'same but different' projects. Hats off to the Disney/Marvel marketing team, but also the fans who've been supporting this movie like crazy on social media. It's comparable to fandoms that have been around for decades. I hope that translates into big box office.


        Now if you'll excuse me, I have one of those 'same but different' scripts to finish.
        Last edited by Furious Anjel; 02-14-2018, 06:43 PM.
        "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

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        • #5
          Re: Black Panther

          haven't seen it yet. the bad CGI in the clips i have seen did put me more on the fence (but mostly because all of these movies have bad CGI). that gripe aside, i will try and squeeze in a show at the Cinerama Dome this weekend if they're not all completely sold out (they probably are though).

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          • #6
            Re: Black Panther

            I think we live in an era where people tell you what to like or not to like under definitions that aren't really applicable. If Black Panther is a good movie then it's a good movie. I understand it's subjective and I also understand there are people who do not like what most people consider is good for their own reasons. But to be told "you HAVE to like this" because if you don't you are sexist, racist or something that distracts the fact the movie just might not be very good. I haven't seen the movie but I'm a fan of the character. I haven't seen Justice League either and growing up I liked those characters. After seeing Suicide Squad I'm a bit leery about superhero movies. I don't like big CGI third act films.

            I grew up absolutely a fan of Luke Cage. So he has a show on Netflix. It gets tremendous reviews. I see it and in my opinion, and my opinion only, it's boring and awful. How do you not give a bullet proof superstrong hero a worthy villain in the marvel universe where everyone is a mutant? Yet, I'm bludgeoned into questioning my dislike for a poorly executed story by society only for people to admit months later it wasn't all that good.

            Movies are a competitive market and they want a record breaking weekend by explaining to you that you have to see this and you have to like this because if you don't you have issues.

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            • #7
              Re: Black Panther

              Originally posted by purplenurple View Post
              Movies are a competitive market and they want a record breaking weekend by explaining to you that you have to see this and you have to like this because if you don't you have issues.
              Precisely. "See it and like it, or you're a bad person."

              Driving up the box office via guilt.

              Giving Disney your money and your endorsement is now a moral imperative.

              And concomitantly diving up the box office via communal intimidation as well: "Recommend it, or else."

              "That's a new social-media reputation you have there. Shame if something were to happen to it."

              An interesting two-pronged tactic. In today's cultural climate? Could work.

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              • #8
                Re: Black Panther

                I actually got a chance to see this one today. And what I am going to say next pretty much sums it up... The Lion King.

                The story is basically the Lion King retold with some bad gumby style cgi.

                Story wise, not too bad but it really is the lion king. Even the bad guy, who is the Scar character, is covered in scars!

                The prince is feeling guilty about his father dying. The prince has a vision where he talks to his dead father just like Simba and Mufasa. The prince gets hurt and is believed to be dead and the bad guy takes his place. The queen and the girl the prince loves become outcasts.The prince has to get help from outside his tribe and retake his throne. And he kills the bad guy even though he didn't want to. He is even surrounded by all females just like a lion pride.

                So if you liked The Lion King you will certainly enjoy Black Panther.

                As far as the acting goes, everyone did pretty good. Michonne from the Walking Dead did well as did Lupita Nyongo. The main guy who plays T'challa was a little weak in my opinion. Needed a stronger main actor I thought.

                The jokes were ok, some a little long in the tooth.

                Missing a bunch of emotion though in the "emotional" parts.

                I would give it an overall 6 and would say definitely see it at least once, especially if you like marvel stuff.

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                • #9
                  Re: Black Panther

                  Can we wait a while before getting into spoiler territory? Geez.
                  "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

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                  • #10
                    Re: Black Panther

                    Originally posted by Furious Anjel View Post
                    Can we wait a while before getting into spoiler territory? Geez.
                    Ha, I always assume people are going to drop spoilers, so proceed with caution.

                    However, it took eight posts before someone had actually SEEN it

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                    • #11
                      Re: Black Panther

                      Originally posted by Darthclaw13 View Post
                      I actually got a chance to see this one today. And what I am going to say next pretty much sums it up... The Lion King.

                      The story is basically the Lion King retold with some bad gumby style cgi.
                      The Lion King was just Hamlet with safari animals, so it's hard to say exactly which story Black Panther was ultimately derivative of (and all stories are derivative).

                      all in all it was pretty great. doesn't really transcend the comic book genre -- still hits all the usual beats of a Marvel movie -- in the way i was fully hoping. but it's super fun getting to the obligatory final CGI showdowns. and has something more to say about things like colonialization and cultural appropriation than any run-of-the-mill action tentpole.

                      and the female characters in particular are awesome. funny but totally badass.
                      Last edited by JoeBanks; 02-18-2018, 12:43 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Black Panther

                        I thought it was pretty good. It had some good light moments, some cool action scenes, cool designs, and I liked the brother/sister banter (reminded me of me and my sister). It had a hopeful message and I appreciated the social importance of its success.

                        On the downside, the plot was incredibly predictable. It utilized the major superhero film tropes in a pretty telegraphed, superficial way. Coogler's use of shaky-cam nearly ruined the beginning of the first big action set piece of the film (in the secret casino).

                        As noted above, it's basically The Lion King but also mixed with the season 3 midseason finale of Arrow (anyone who watches Arrow will immediately see the entire plot of that episode retold in BP with T'Challa subbed in for Oliver Queen). CGI Black Panther looked goofy, Gumby-like terrible and was the worst CGI I've seen since Justice League's Steppenwolf.

                        Those criticisms aside, though, I still enjoyed it. It's certainly not "a masterpiece" as I read one (likely paid) film critic hyperbolically call it. The Winter Soldier is still by far the best Marvel film imo. But, BP is still good and still worth seeing.
                        "Tact's just 'not saying true stuff.' " - Cordelia Chase

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                        • #13
                          Re: Black Panther

                          I can't wait to see this one. It, at least, looks a little different from some of the other Marvel movies, who are beginning to look all the same.

                          I am surprised that there wasn't a thread made for Phantom Thread. That was such a great movie.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Black Panther

                            Finally saw it.

                            I can't imagine the kind of pressure that was on Ryan Coogler's shoulders when he took on this project. 30 years old, only 2 feature films under his belt and Marvel comes knocking with an offer to co-write/direct a $200M blockbuster about their first black superhero. This could have turned out very badly... but I'll be damned if he didn't pull it off (mostly).

                            This isn't the Dark Knight, nor is it Captain America: Winter Soldier

                            However, it's one of my top 5 superhero movies, maybe top 3.

                            First off, Ruth Carter is going to walk off with the Oscar for costume design, Ludwig Gorransson for the score, and Hannah Beachler will get a nomination (possibly a win) for production design. I'm pretty confident that Michael B. Jordan or Danai Gurrira will get a Golden Globe nomination in the best supporting actor categories. Maybe a SAG nomination for Best Ensemble?


                            Overall, the action is fine. I did have a problem with an early jungle sequence that's poorly lit for night action and even worse for dialogue among dark-skinned characters. The best stuff doesn't involve bulletproof cgi cat suits. My favorite is the sequence at the casino. Honestly, if Marvel was looking for John Wick or The Raid style action sequences, Coogler would not have been the guy to hire.

                            Wakanda feels like a lived-in place and character. In fact, World of Wakanda is arguably a more appropriate title than Black Panther. The world-building and fleshed out characters are really where the movie stands out from the rest of the MCU. Also, it has some of the best female characters I've seen in a superhero/action movie. Great performances across the board.

                            A tremendous amount of credit should go to Chadwick Boseman for being gracious enough to share the spotlight with his co-stars. Michael B. Jordan has the flashier role (best MCU villain?), Danai gets some great action scenes, and people like Letitia Wright and Winston Duke are terrific scene stealers. The story benefits from this immensely.

                            This isn't some twisty-turny story with edge of your seat reveals. It's palace intrigue stuff, Game of Thrones-lite, eyeing merchandise and kiddie toys. Which leads me to...

                            Parts of the third act and the final showdown between T'Challa and Killmonger are a little too video-gamey for my liking but The Mouse knows better. I did like their exchange afterward.

                            The best trick Ryan Coogler managed to pull off is creating a story that appeals to everyone, but if you're familiar with black and/or African culture, the appeal is even stronger. The movie crossed $500M worldwide today and a billion might not be too far off.

                            Black Panther isn't a masterpiece, but 'I've never seen anything like this.'


                            My rating: 8.8/10

                            Might have to see it again next week.

                            "I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray." - Prince

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                            • #15
                              Re: Black Panther

                              Originally posted by Furious Anjel View Post
                              The best trick Ryan Coogler managed to pull off is creating a story that appeals to everyone, but if you're familiar with black and/or African culture, the appeal is even stronger. The movie crossed $500M worldwide today and a billion might not be too far off.

                              This. It succeeds in being a popcorn movie that is fun to watch, and can appeal to anyone. It's not the best, but it's solid to really good in this respect. And yes, the production design is exceptional.

                              But it works on another level like you said that some folks may not pick up on. It's as if Ryan Coogler inserted a James Baldwin essay into the story themes - the protag/antag conflict becoming an internal dialogue writ large amongst black people about the relationship between African-Americans and Africans. For example, to a general audience, Wakanda is a comic book world, but Ryan Coogler has managed to add another layer by making Wakanda a symbol of a set of ideas, hopes, etc that have been debated and discussed for generations (again James Baldwin, Malcolm X, W.E.B DuBois, etc) with respect to pan-Africanism.

                              Yes this will go over many heads but it seems like Coogler added this layer not for the general audience, but for those who understand the history of black culture in America (and why it's especially resonated with African-American audiences beyond just "being a good movie" - it's this layer that's speaking directly to them).

                              Some other things to chew on:

                              Oakland, 1992. Both the city and location are not a coincidence. Coogler could've just chosen Oakland arbitrarily simply because he grew up there, but it's highly unlikely given who he is and his knowledge of the city's history (his first feature being FRUITVALE STATION), a city which also *happens* to be the birthplace of the Black Panther Party in the 1960s and the debates within the African-American community about pan-Africanism, the use of violence to defend themselves and/or attack others, etc. Also, there was no reason to be specific about the year (1992), but if you know what was going on in California in the early 1990s, you know it's not an arbitrary choice. And coupled with the age we live in now (and when the script was written with BLM) which Coogler was very well aware. No one ever says it in the film, but a lot can be inferred. The elephant is hiding in plain sight.

                              Michael B. Jordan's vernacular in the film. It's carefully constructed and deliberate. Actually more than that - hair/makeup/costume and his build in contrast to Chaswick Boseman, and their expressions of masculinity.

                              Same with the world building of Wakanda, and the role of women in the story (not just strong female characters for its own sake, but done in a way that is loaded with subtext).
                              Last edited by redturtle; 02-25-2018, 08:20 PM.

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