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  • Oscars

    According to form. Shape of Water will be forgotten as fast as Moonlight. Would have loved to see something edgy like I, Tonya, but thems the breaks. Love that Gary Oldman and Roger Deakins won in a year they should have. But overall, pretty meh. Neither screenwriting award was, in my opinion, correct, but I'm glad a horror film broke through.
    Last edited by EdFury; 03-05-2018, 08:11 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Oscars

    Yup. "Three Billboards" is infinitely superior to "The Shape of Water." TSOW did deserve to win for art direction - it's a great-looking film but dramatically nothing. I understand that my Willing Suspension Of Disbelief isn't what it used to be, and it's true that I no longer put out milk and cookies for Santa, but my god... Also, it won for Best Original Score, and speaking as one who has spent many many many years (I missed a many) teaching music composition, it's a tired, routine score. But then we all know that, as Ecclesiastes pointed out, the race is not to the swift.

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    • #3
      Re: Oscars

      This was apparently the lowest-rated Oscar telecast in history.

      http://time.com/5186280/oscars-2018-ratings-low/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Oscars

        Originally posted by entlassen View Post
        This was apparently the lowest-rated Oscar telecast in history.

        http://time.com/5186280/oscars-2018-ratings-low/
        and not out of line with historical declines in other live event broadcasts

        https://twitter.com/MarkHarrisNYC/st...96350433202177

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        • #5
          Re: Oscars

          Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
          and not out of line with historical declines in other live event broadcasts

          https://twitter.com/MarkHarrisNYC/st...96350433202177
          He says the downward trend has nothing to do with politics and then goes on to state that the Grammys and Superbowl also have plummeting ratings, not mentioning that they were both heavily politicized as well.

          The bigger issue is that the movies themselves just aren't good, and standards in taste have declined in recent decades. Imagine a Mad Max movie getting a Best Picture nomination 30 years ago, or the Creature from the Black Lagoon getting one in the 50s. These movies are made for overgrown children.

          The combination of niche markets and globalization is destroying the industry. Audiences are stuck with the latest CGI drivel made for the Chinese or political hackery for Americans.

          Could Lawrence of Arabia be made today? Or even The Departed, for that matter? Or are we stuck between Moonlight and Superman vs. Wonder Man: Avengers 5: Rise of the Dawn of Justice?

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          • #6
            Re: Oscars

            Originally posted by entlassen View Post
            The bigger issue is that the movies themselves just aren't good, and standards in taste have declined in recent decades. Imagine a Mad Max movie getting a Best Picture nomination 30 years ago, or the Creature from the Black Lagoon getting one in the 50s. These movies are made for overgrown children.

            The combination of niche markets and globalization is destroying the industry. Audiences are stuck with the latest CGI drivel made for the Chinese or political hackery for Americans.

            Could Lawrence of Arabia be made today? Or even The Departed, for that matter? Or are we stuck between Moonlight and Superman vs. Wonder Man: Avengers 5: Rise of the Dawn of Justice?
            Is it time to turn the speculative scripts I'm writing into television series?

            As an endorsement of the comments made by entlassen, give a listen to this on-air discussion of the ever-shrinking market for original screenplays and domestic-fare films on NPR Marketplace (tonight, March 5th):

            ”Did superheroes kill all the other movies?”
            "Go to the edge of the cliff and jump off. Build your wings on the way down.- - Ray Bradbury

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            • #7
              Re: Oscars

              I concur with the guy Entlassen mentioned.

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              • #8
                Re: Oscars

                Wow, good replies, folks.

                I was keeping a list of the replies that I liked, so I could say so in a post, and then I realized that the list included everybody.

                "The fact that you have seen professionals write poorly is no reason for you to imitate them." - ComicBent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Oscars

                  I wish I could just stay quiet.

                  I don't really agree with many of these responses. Or at least the idea that films are terrible now and they don't make them like they used to, the mantra of the middle aged person who doesn't see enough films or doesn't want to like them. Here's a list of films that I saw in 2017 that I would say are good and often very good.

                  A Ghost Story, The Florida Project, Get Out, Blade Runner 2049, Lady Bird, mother!, The Last Jedi, The Shape of Water, Dunkirk, Baby Driver, Paddington 2, Three Billboards, Downsizing, The Killing of a Sacred Deer, Coco, It, Brigsby Bear, Wind River, The Death of Stalin, The Disaster Artist, Logan, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor: Ragnarok, John Wick 2, Mindhorn, Colossal, The Big Sick, War for the Planet of the Apes, Logan Lucky, Detroit, American Made, Film Stars Don't Die in Liverpool, Jumanji, Gerald's Game, I Tonya, Split, The Lego Batman Movie, Trainspotting 2. (I haven't had the chance to see films like Call Me by Your Name or Phantom Thread yet)

                  That's 39 films there, around half completely original. What you see there is a good year for film and that's just what I've seen. If you can look at that list and still say that standards have declined I don't think the problem is with the film industry. There are lots of great films in between the art house and multiplex, you just have to find them. In a world where Braveheart won over 20 years ago (and A Beautiful Mind a few years later) I can safely say that standards are up.

                  I very much enjoyed The Shape of Water but I would have taken Get Out or Lady Bird over it. A Ghost Story and The Florida Project too if they had been nominated.

                  I, Tonya wasn''t edgy. mother! was edgy but that's a whole thread not worth getting into. It was all pretty by the numbers. I enjoyed it enough but now it's just the film that stole an oscar from Laurie Metcalf to me.

                  And does everybody hate Moonlight now? That still sticks with me personally. More so than something like Spotlight or Argo.

                  By the by, Mad Max: Fury Road fully deserved the nomination a few years ago. As did Star Wars almost 40 years before it. Both films are genre done to perfection.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Oscars

                    If filmmaking is where art meets commerce, the general feelings and fears highlighted in the discussion, the article, and the radio story mentioned are that the purity of the art is being eroded in favor of pure commerce.
                    Last edited by TigerFang; 03-06-2018, 06:58 AM.
                    "Go to the edge of the cliff and jump off. Build your wings on the way down.- - Ray Bradbury

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Oscars

                      As for the Oscars, I felt Phantom Thread was the most cerebral of all the Oscar candidates and the only movie that satisfied on all accounts of writing, costuming, directing, cinematography, and especially acting. Apparently, however, the Academy disagrees with me, but it's not the first time that has happened, to wit, The Big Lebowski (1998), and Shawshank Redemption (1994), among others.

                      A truly great film, I believe Phantom Thread (2017) will withstand the test of Time to become a classic film, or at the very least, one worthy of admission into the National Film Preservation Board's National Film Registry.
                      Last edited by TigerFang; 03-07-2018, 04:06 AM.
                      "Go to the edge of the cliff and jump off. Build your wings on the way down.- - Ray Bradbury

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Oscars

                        Originally posted by TheConnorNoden View Post
                        I wish I could just stay quiet.
                        I spend about 99.999% of my time on the internet biting my tongue, so I can relate.

                        But there's a pretty good analogy to be drawn between Hollywood and the music business, in the sense that the music business pretty much died 15 years ago (in terms of both sales and relevance) and yet they keep having the Grammy Awards ceremony every year anyway, because why stop a tradition that's really about selling laundry detergent ads anyway?

                        Anyway, The Oscars discussion ties in completely with the Black Panther discussion.

                        People are celebrating the success of films like Black Panther and Rogue One and Wonder Woman (and why shouldn't they? they're fun movies and it's infinitely better for the world to celebrate something rather than to sh1t on it.), but there is a huge problem on the the horizon, because Hollywood is being driven right now by Disney-Lucas-Marvel-Pixar, and DLMP's business model is that the film business is binary.

                        Meaning, back in the day when 20th Century Fox would make blockbusters like Attack Of The Clones and Avatar, they would then take some of the profits to finance films like Sideways and Little Miss Sunshine.

                        Universal would make us sit through dreck like Jurassic Park 3 so that they could make Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind.

                        But DLMP is saying NO. We are going to take the Marvel money and make more Marvel movies. We DO NOT CARE about anything adult or R rated or challenging or thoughtful or human.

                        Five of the top 10 highest grossing films of all time have come out in the last 3 years, and they're all DLMP. Soon it will be all 10. And then the top 20. And in order for Black Panther 2 to be considered a 'success', it's going to have to open on 5000 screens instead of 4000.

                        And once DLMP owns all the best weekends on the release calendar, none of the remaining studios will even bother to compete. And that's the problem.

                        I know that my future is probably going to involve publishing my own fiction and then making my own tiny little movies on my phone. And I'm okay with that. But for the people who are seriously concerned about wealth inequality and jobs, you are hurting your own cause by not supporting smaller films.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Oscars

                          Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                          I spend about 99.999% of my time on the internet biting my tongue, so I can relate.

                          But there's a pretty good analogy to be drawn between Hollywood and the music business, in the sense that the music business pretty much died 15 years ago (in terms of both sales and relevance) and yet they keep having the Grammy Awards ceremony every year anyway, because why stop a tradition that's really about selling laundry detergent ads anyway?

                          Anyway, The Oscars discussion ties in completely with the Black Panther discussion.

                          People are celebrating the success of films like Black Panther and Rogue One and Wonder Woman (and why shouldn't they? they're fun movies and it's infinitely better for the world to celebrate something rather than to sh1t on it.), but there is a huge problem on the the horizon, because Hollywood is being driven right now by Disney-Lucas-Marvel-Pixar, and DLMP's business model is that the film business is binary.

                          Meaning, back in the day when 20th Century Fox would make blockbusters like Attack Of The Clones and Avatar, they would then take some of the profits to finance films like Sideways and Little Miss Sunshine.

                          Universal would make us sit through dreck like Jurassic Park 3 so that they could make Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind.

                          But DLMP is saying NO. We are going to take the Marvel money and make more Marvel movies. We DO NOT CARE about anything adult or R rated or challenging or thoughtful or human.

                          Five of the top 10 highest grossing films of all time have come out in the last 3 years, and they're all DLMP. Soon it will be all 10. And then the top 20. And in order for Black Panther 2 to be considered a 'success', it's going to have to open on 5000 screens instead of 4000.

                          And once DLMP owns all the best weekends on the release calendar, none of the remaining studios will even bother to compete. And that's the problem.

                          I know that my future is probably going to involve publishing my own fiction and then making my own tiny little movies on my phone. And I'm okay with that. But for the people who are seriously concerned about wealth inequality and jobs, you are hurting your own cause by not supporting smaller films.
                          Good post, and one of the reasons why the Fox sale to Disney scares me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Oscars

                            Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
                            Meaning, back in the day when 20th Century Fox would make blockbusters like Attack Of The Clones and Avatar, they would then take some of the profits to finance films like Sideways and Little Miss Sunshine.

                            Universal would make us sit through dreck like Jurassic Park 3 so that they could make Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind.

                            But DLMP is saying NO. We are going to take the Marvel money and make more Marvel movies. We DO NOT CARE about anything adult or R rated or challenging or thoughtful or human.
                            What changed? It's hard to believe that the studios cared less about money back then. Maybe the opportunity cost of putting smaller movies in a finite number of theaters has changed because the big movies make so much more money than the old days. Maybe things will balance out as streaming media takes over.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Oscars

                              There's a book called BLOCKBUSTER by Anita Elberse that covers a lot of the "whats" asked in the last few posts. An eye opening book on modern entertainment spectacle and the economic theories driving the machine.

                              ScreenRider's mention of streaming media made me remember this book. A prediction in it suggests that due to advances in camera, screen, and sound technology (and the need to pay for them) movies are being made to fit the format - bigger, bolder, louder, etc - and that stories that don't need such extravagance are going to Netflix (which milks its revenue niche by turning 2 hour movies into 14 hour tv series/movies.)

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