Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • StoryWriter
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Originally posted by kintnerboy View Post
    Although I did get a kick out of all the Monday morning box office recaps that were absolutely CROWING about how O8 made more than O11 on opening weekend, while conveniently not mentioning that it's not playing very well over seas.

    That's called a Lie Of Omission, but I'm sure that I'm a jerk for pointing it out.
    Well, yes and no (the box office part, not the jerk part ). "Ocean's 8" didn't do as well in Mexico as "Ocean's 11", but in the only other semi-big market that it's been released in, so far, (Australia) "Ocean's 8" has done $8 Million so far and "Ocean's 11" did $11 Million for it's whole run.

    "Ocean's 11" did $24 Million in France, $24 Million in Germany, $15 Million in Italy, $52 Million in Japan, $12 Million in Spain and $35 Million in the United Kingdom. "Ocean's 8" hasn't opened in ANY of those countries yet. So it's hard to call that a Lie Of Omission.

    I agree with just about everything else you said.

    Leave a comment:


  • kintnerboy
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Co-star Cate Blanchett concurred, saying the media had failed to make the mindshift the movie industry had when it came to gender equality. “The conversation has to change,” she said, “and the media has a huge responsibility.”

    Beware of anyone who uses the word 'conversation'' as a euphemism for national discourse-- Run as far and as fast as you can.

    'Conversation' is code for "I'm going to make a bunch of demands, and you're either going to agree 100% with me (or simply keep your mouth shut) or else your career will be irreparably damaged until you are sent to a reeducation camp and learn to get with the narrative".

    I feel sorry for Kate and Mindy and Sandra and all the other stars of Oceans 8 for having to do do a press junket right after Brie Larson made her (borderline crazy) comments about reviews of another film. The 'journalists' are going to ask loaded questions that are only designed to get you to say something unfortunate.

    I can't understand why anyone (actor, director, writer) would do press at all anymore, unless it is an inescapable contractual demand, and perhaps it's time for that to change. It seems like not a day goes by that it doesn't backfire on someone (most recently Jason Bateman and Bill Clinton, though I'm sure there are others I didn't hear about).

    Film critics are largely irrelevant today. No one is logging on to nytimes.com to see what AO Scott and Manohla Dargis thought of the latest Friday openings. It is a dying forum in a dying industry.

    Which is why AO and Manohla have pivoted away from film reviews and gotten more into Diversity Outrage Essays. It's the only way to drive traffic to their website, by gaming the algorithms with click-bait.

    The idea that Rotten Tomatoes is driving people to theaters (or keeping them away) is false. You could fill a book with films that scored 90% + on RT and didn't make any money (actually, someone should do that).

    I'm glad this film is doing well. Success for anyone is success for everyone in many ways.

    Although I did get a kick out of all the Monday morning box office recaps that were absolutely CROWING about how O8 made more than O11 on opening weekend, while conveniently not mentioning that it's not playing very well over seas.

    That's called a Lie Of Omission, but I'm sure that I'm a jerk for pointing it out.

    Leave a comment:


  • bmcthomas
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    This thread is about Oceans 8, not Wonder Woman. If you want to talk about Wonder Woman, go to that thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffLowell
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Can female critics appreciate films with male leads?

    Leave a comment:


  • StoryWriter
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
    Pointing out the fact of a 2 males to 1 female ratio on an influential movie review website is not "whining and bitching". Have you not considered that you may be part of the problem?
    No -- what I consider the problem is your inability to read and comprehend what I wrote.

    Roughly two-thirds of ALL critics gave this movie a thumbs up.

    By a slim margin, the women who reviewed the film were MORE critical of it than the men who reviewed it (on Rotten Tomatoes).

    MEANING: If there had been MORE women reviewers and less men (and the percentages stayed the same), the movie would have had a LOWER rating, not a higher one.

    But what I thought was interesting is that both the women and men, who were critical of the movie, saw the same flaws.

    So it's not women vs men thing and it's stupid to portray that way. I guess some people are just in perpetual knee-jerk mode.

    AND... as I've tried to make clear several times -- this movie is considered successful. Yes SUCCESSFUL!!! To borrow from "My Cousin Vinny": "A SUCCESSFUL MOVIE -- WHAT A FREAKIN' NIGHTMARE!!!"

    This also opened BIGGER than any of the other Ocean's movies.

    As far as I know nobody called for a boycott of this movie -- there wasn't any bad press. I don't think even the conservative talk shows said anything derogatory about it. Since it beat studio projections, I think the studio is happy, so, once again, WTF is their problem?

    It's like betting on one horse to win and when it wins, you whine and bitch because after-the-fact you decided you wanted your horse to win by ten lengths, not seven.

    By the way -- "Ocean's Twelve" got a 54% "Rotten" rating. Maybe the women critics ganged up on it, to sabotage it -- you think? (Must be the case -- I can't think of any other explanation -- can you?)

    Personally, I considered watching the movie because Sandra Bullock is one of my favorite actresses. (I'll probably rent it.) But I watched the trailer and it was pretty flat. Usually when a trailer bores you, that doesn't bode well for the film.

    And that jibes pretty well with what many of the critics said (even those who gave it a thumbs up). They liked the idea. They liked the actresses, but they thought the story was weak and the talent was wasted.

    Both women and men reviewers said that. So I REALLY don't think there's a vast misogynist conspiracy at work here.

    Oh -- did I mention the movie IS considered a success?
    Last edited by StoryWriter; 06-17-2018, 10:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Centos
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
    <Snip>

    And btw, her outfit is a warrior amazon outfit. There are certainly plenty of male stars in movies running around half naked with pecs and biceps galore fighting all manner of threat and enemies...
    An Amazon warrior outfit, you say? Well ... I didn't know this was a "historical" movie. (I'm sorry, I'm having trouble taking this seriously. Wonder Woman was (is?) based on a comic book. That's as "deep" as it goes.)

    Originally posted by Rantanplan View Post
    I think she's an empowering role model for young girls, actually. And not for nothing, but chicks who play Beatrix-Kill-Bill or Sarah Connor or Wonder Woman etc have to put in the work to look/act the part, which usually involves months of grueling physical training.
    Oh, give me a freaking break. Wonder Woman is a fantasy, comic book character doing things no normal human being can do. She's just like male comic book characters. When I was a kid (for a short while) I read Thor and Spiderman. Was I "empowered" to swing from building to building, using my "spidy webs" or twirl a freaking hammer fast enough to fly? I think girls are smart enough to separate fantasy from reality. If not, they'll be stuck in idiot video games 24/7 like too many of the boys are these days. Some of them never grow up into men.

    I think I've about exhausted my tolerance for comic book movies (actually several years ago). I don't see how this vapid action fluff empowers anybody to do anything -- men or women.

    Leave a comment:


  • StoryWriter
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
    How deftly you dismiss the women that you've quoted as being unrealistic.
    I didn't use the word "unrealistic" to describe them. If I did use a word to describe them it would have probably been "delusional".

    They're whining and (yes) bitching about how they're being put down and mistreated, in a film that's considered successful. One was even running down the director. How stupid is that? He directs a film, that many critics agree didn't have much of a story, that's been done three times before. He exceeds the studio's expectations and he... gets run down by a couple of the actresses in the film because.... who the hell knows? I mean, WTF?! This wasn't supposed to be a tent-pole movie, intended to open at $250 Million.

    So, yeah -- whining and bitching -- essentially saying: "You stupid misogynist SOBs, you cast me in a movie that was (shudder) successful -- how DARE you!"

    It's beyond stupid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rantanplan
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    Originally posted by Centos View Post
    I haven't seen (or plan to see) Wonder Woman, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't this a movie about a woman who mostly runs around in not much more than a bikini?

    She does run around in a skimpy outfit and she looks freaking hot doing it, but she also totally kicks ass and she is powerful and smart and wise and funny and compassionate and she totally rocks

    And btw, her outfit is a warrior amazon outfit. There are certainly plenty of male stars in movies running around half naked with pecs and biceps galore fighting all manner of threat and enemies...

    I think she's an empowering role model for young girls, actually. And not for nothing, but chicks who play Beatrix-Kill-Bill or Sarah Connor or Wonder Woman etc have to put in the work to look/act the part, which usually involves months of grueling physical training.

    Leave a comment:


  • Centos
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    Originally posted by JoeBanks View Post
    case in point, David Edelstein's misogynist review of Wonder Woman last year. depending on how many more David Edelsteins come to female-centered movies with the same kind of personal axe to grind, I probably wouldn't want them reviewing Oceans 8 if I were the producer either.
    I haven't seen (or plan to see) Wonder Woman, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't this a movie about a woman who mostly runs around in not much more than a bikini? Wouldn't the movie, itself, be misogynist?

    Leave a comment:


  • Centos
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Originally posted by Crayon View Post
    You chose to use the word 'bitching'? Seriously? Is the word 'complaining', or 'criticism', or 'concern' not suitable? Pointing out the fact of a 2 males to 1 female ratio on an influential movie review website is not "whining and bitching". Have you not considered that you may be part of the problem?
    Oh good grief. I thought the original Oceans 11 sucked and didn't watch any of the others. There's no way in hell I would want to watch what amounts to a gender-changing reboot of a tired (and tiresome) franchise. If these women want to be remembered for something, act in something worth remembering. Meanwhile there was some (probably) valid criticism. Did you check into that, or did you just knee-jerk into PC Correct Mode?

    And, yeah, these women "bitched" about nothing. MEN and women "bitch" all the time. It's part of the English language, it's a verb that means "to complain in a whining or grumbling manner; to gripe." Don't like it? Tough. It's a word I use all the time. I'm fed up with the brain-dead "PC Police," who don't even know what words really mean, trying to tell me what words I should and shouldn't use. Life's too short to walk on eggshells.

    Leave a comment:


  • goldmund
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    (...)

    Edit: I will not get into political arguments online
    I will not get into political arguments online
    I will not get into political arguments online

    Leave a comment:


  • Crayon
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    Originally posted by Bananos View Post
    Blaming people for having a different opinion is always a good tactic. It's like a chef blaming the customers for not liking his food.
    What absolute twaddle. That's a fallacious analogy. Since when is sexism and gender inequality merely an opinion?

    Leave a comment:


  • Crayon
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again

    Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
    A little reality:
    How deftly you dismiss the women that you've quoted as being unrealistic.

    Originally posted by StoryWriter View Post
    So why all the whining and bitching?
    You chose to use the word 'bitching'? Seriously? Is the word 'complaining', or 'criticism', or 'concern' not suitable? Pointing out the fact of a 2 males to 1 female ratio on an influential movie review website is not "whining and bitching". Have you not considered that you may be part of the problem?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bananos
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    Blaming people for having a different opinion is always a good tactic. It's like a chef blaming the customers for not liking his food.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeBanks
    replied
    Re: Ocean's 8 -- Here We Go Again.

    Rotten Tomatoes scores have an outsized influence on opening weekend box office, so even small biases in reviews -- real or perceived -- can adversely affect a movie's opening.

    68% is not a great RT score. is it fairly earned? i haven't seen Oceans 8 so i won't personally opine. but i know that implicit bias is definitely a real thing so i won't say that the criticism of that score isn't valid.

    i also know from experience that a lot of mediocre male-driven movies get better reviews than they probably deserve. so the existence of a double standard for female-driven films wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    case in point, David Edelstein's misogynist review of Wonder Woman last year. depending on how many more David Edelsteins come to female-centered movies with the same kind of personal axe to grind, I probably wouldn't want them reviewing Oceans 8 if I were the producer either.

    https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainm...ple-cant-read/

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X