Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

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  • #16
    Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

    I would like them to follow a lot of what is in The Killing Joke for the sequel. Rumors around the net about maybe Crispin Glover for the Joker. I really hope so.

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    • #17
      Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

      Good selection. Jake Busey looks like the joker, Crispin could be a good possibility.
      sigpic

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      • #18
        Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

        I'm looking forward to it. Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman - Christopher Nolan directing. Plus having seen Batman and Robin I need to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Maybe it's not as good as the first, but this far into a franchise what is?
        http://wasitsomethingiwrote.blogspot.com/

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        • #19
          Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

          I can play the part of Batman's mother, back from the dead, when they do the Batman All Zombie sequel.

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          • #20
            Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

            I agree with McG on two things:

            1) Katie Holmes. Not a whole lot to her, she and Tom should get along well.

            2) Flashbacks: these needed to be cut down, they went on too long.


            But I liked it. I thought both Scarecrow and Ras were credible villlians. I don't mind the revisionist history in the filmic sense, comics do that all the time.


            But what language was Ras speaking in the beginning? It wasn't Japanese. I thought I caught some greek words- but heck I dunno.

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            • #21
              Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

              SPOILERS




              I'm serious...I'm gonna discuss the plot, people....





              SPOILERS...TURN BACK NOW....





              No one else is complaining about the story?? League of Shadows is going to gas people so they tear Gotham apart? WTF? That's almost kinda-sorta like the premise of LXG, with the evil dude trying to start wars with all these countries so they crumble into chaos.

              What's the friggin' POINT? I never really heard a logical explanation for WHY they wanna do this...or had been doing this for thousands of years. Just because they want a "fresh start" in some places? Whaaa-?

              And I'm sorry, but the film lost severe MacG Points when its main villian (who actually wasn't even on screen for 85% of the damn movie) started "monologue-ing."

              AUSTIN POWERS and THE INCREDIBLES ruined that screenwriting tactic, and Goyer and Nolan should've been aware and fully capable to overcome such weighty exposition in a more nuanced way.


              Crap, crap, crap, CRAP.

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              • #22
                Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                Originally posted by MacG
                I never really heard a logical explanation for WHY they wanna do this...
                Yeah, I really hate it when terrorism isn't simple and laid out for us.

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                • #23
                  Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                  Excellent movie. Well worth the cost of admission.
                  "Your intuition knows what to write, so get out of the way.-
                  ― Ray Bradbury

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                  • #24
                    Re: Batman Begins. Too long by 20 minutes.

                    I was really into this until the part where the Chinese/Tibetan/whatever master explains why Batman must destroy Gotham. The explanation was so stupid I sat there for ten minutes hating the film.

                    Couldn't they have come up with something a little smarter? They are for justice, so they want to destroy a city and millions of innocent people with it. Why not just fight the bad people like Batman wants to do?

                    Terrible writing. Just terrible.

                    Another thing. Katie Holmes doesn't cut it. She's as bad as the girl from Spiderman. Not hot enough. Get someone with some sex appeal for Christ's sake.

                    The action sequences go on too long, especially the car chase. A minute or two is good. 5 minutes and I'm looking at my watch. Since the story stands still while these things go on, keep them short and snappy.

                    What's worse is the editing. It's so fast and choppy you can't tell what's going on. Your brain doesn't have enough time to simulate the the events happening in any meaningful way. It's so fast it's almost subliminal. Add the "shaky cam" and it's pointless. It was almost as bad as Bourne Supremacy. I want to see the fights and action, not just blurry clips at warp speed that carry no meaning for me. They could be pictures of anything, not an event unfolding.

                    I hope that style of editing goes the way of the dinosaur.

                    Lastly, I was way ahead of the story. Once I heard found out about dumping the poison down into the water supply, I was about 20 minutes ahead of the movie.

                    And just as I was forgetting about the silliness in the first act, Liam Neeson shows up to remind me of his stupid plans. He is going to destroy Gotham to restore balance. Why not just kill all the bad guys? Oh, boy, what a dumb motivation.

                    Anyway, overall, I think this was by far the best batman. I hated the other ones, so this wasn't difficult, but I did like a lot of things about this movie. I liked the backstory, the explanation for the batsuit (I mean, come on, who the heck would wear a bat costume?), his motivation, even his journey to Tibet or wherever he went.

                    But I think the movie was about 20 minutes too long. I was getting bored by the end of it.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                      I liked the explination- I felt it worked well in a comic book movie. This is a movie about a guy who spends a great deal of money to dress up like a bat.


                      I liked a shadow network of men who think it's their duty to shepard civilization the way they think it should go. How much was their concept of "justice" just a self justification to destroy lives and cultures? How much of their sheparding was really just an excuse to enrich their own bank accounts?

                      I thought it was an excellent method to show how much easier it is to destroy something than to fix it. It shows the nobility of Batman by comparision; he is still willing to build society rather than take it down and start again with no garauntee that it will be any better.

                      and as a thinly veiled terrorims metaphor it worked great too.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                        I thought it was a great Bruce Wayne movie.

                        Easily the best rendering of Bruce Wayne's story on film.

                        As a Batman film, is was deeply flawed and poorly executed.

                        Nolan is a terrible action director which is why this is the first Batman movie where the non-Batman sequences were more interesting and exciting than the actual Batman sequences.

                        **POSSIBLE SPOILERS ALERT**

                        Some problems with the story:

                        1) Batman refuses to kill a man after his training. So he kills many of his fellow League of Shadow members, the man he thought was his master and burns the place down, almost certainly killing the one man he refused to kill in the first place.

                        2) Batman is trained to use his intelligence and skills to deceive and evade through stealth. Everything Batman does draws attention to himself and he escapes through sheer luck and use of force to overcome that which he should be avoiding and evading.

                        3) Batman wants to save a childhood friend. That's cool. What's not cool is that he causes millions of dollars in damage doing it, not to mention seriously injuring, crippling and killing countless police officers and innocent civilians during his ill conceived and poorly handled car chase over roof tops and through Gotham's streets.

                        Batman's not a hero in this film, he's a terrorist inflicting wide spread damage and chaos wherever he goes. Whatever happened to the Batman who used his intelligence and agility to escape and evade? Any idiot can plow a tank through cars.

                        4) The film promises us big fight sequences with stunning physical stunts but every action and fight sequence has all the style and excitement of a Three's Company prat fall. Even the much anticipated show down between Bats and his old mentor is a plodding effort of lame choreography that is over in the blink of an eye.

                        5) The water evaporator. Don't even get me started on how absurd that is or how poorly integrated to the story it was.

                        I really wanted to love this movie. I really did.

                        It is a more mature and consistent with the comic books effort than the previous films but it was still not as good as it should have, or could have been.

                        Nolan is not an action director. His action sequences have always been the weakest part of his films, but at least in Memento and Insomnia there was intense dramatic context for those scenes that gave them the energy and intensity that his direction alone could not give. In Batman, his weakness as an action director is a serious detriment to the film.
                        Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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                        • #27
                          Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                          For me, the stuff with the monks was simple. They were recruiting Bruce Wayne for their own benefit, perhaps for access to Wayne Industries weaponry (which they ended up stealing anyway -- the water thing, remember). Bruce was a pawn. But he was too smart. He got the training, then when they tried pushing him too far, he held back. He realized that they were indeed on the wrong side of justice and tricked him. So he faught back. At that point, he's "killing," although that is just assumed, a group of really bad guys. Terrorists. So it all added up to me.

                          And it's kinda cool and appropriate if you think about it. Batman trained by dark forces. Makes sense.

                          Ele...

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                          • #28
                            Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                            Being trained by dark forces is coo and accurate with the comics.

                            What's the problem is that Batman does not kill EVER, and even if you can justify killing in self defense, he still burned that fat naked guy alive - the one he refused to kill in the first place.

                            So all that death and destruction was for nothing.

                            Had he saved the guy and taken him to the authorities - then it would have worked.
                            Fortune favors the bold - Virgil

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                            • #29
                              Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                              Maybe those blurred lines are a good thing. It sure as hell makes Bruce and his mission much more complex.

                              Ele...

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                              • #30
                                Re: Batman Begins..... (spoilers)

                                I really liked this movie. I was only disappointed with the fact that it had a train at the end. Can we say that is a cliche that needs to be taken out of superhero movies?
                                www.one.org

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