Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

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    Deus Ex Machine
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  • Deus Ex Machine
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    The naked guy who was tied up was NOT attacking Bruce so you can't claim that burning him alive was an act of self defense.

    Bruce/Bats does not kill, ever, even in self defense. That is the one thing that separates him from the bad guys. Otherwise you could say every situation he puts himself in, when he jumps a bad guy, he is acting in self defense and so he is justified in killing. Bruce refused to kill, even a man who deserved it, because he did not want to cross that line that separated him from criminals.

    Then he turned around and barbecued the guy alive.

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  • elephant1978
    Member

  • elephant1978
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    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    I think that scene, Deus, showed Bruce discovering he was being conned. I believe he said he would go to Gotham and fight the bad guys, but not participate in a terrorist-like team. Things got more tense. And they made it very clear to Bruce, kill this man and join us, or die. So in that instant, those people became no different from the bad guys Bruce would seek out to bring to justice. If they were killed, they were most likely deserving in Bruce's eyes. And for some credit, it wasn't murder or execution. It was self defense. It's forgivable in the fight for justice.

    Ele...

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  • Deus Ex Machine
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  • Deus Ex Machine
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    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Originally posted by TheKeenGuy
    You can't expect Batman to save the lives of all the people trying to murder him... if they had all done the right thing and focused on escaping right away rather than trying to kill Batman, they probably would have all been safe and sound.
    You don't see the irony in Batman refusing to kill the man (who was naked and bound) and his actions cause him to be burned alive instead of being beheaded by Bruce? Batman refused to kill him - then for all intents and purposes turns around and kills him.

    Do you really think the naked guy was trying to kill the only man who didn't want him dead, or that it's his own fault he was barbecued?

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  • velysai
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    I just saw it tonight and absolutely loved it. Yeah, there are a couple of things I'd change, but who the hell cares?

    And whoever said it wasn't funny enough and it took itself too seriously can bite me.

    Leave a comment:

  • TheKeenGuy
    Moderator

  • TheKeenGuy
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Originally posted by Deus Ex Machine
    1) Batman refuses to kill a man after his training. So he kills many of his fellow League of Shadow members, the man he thought was his master and burns the place down, almost certainly killing the one man he refused to kill in the first place.
    You can't expect Batman to save the lives of all the people trying to murder him... if they had all done the right thing and focused on escaping right away rather than trying to kill Batman, they probably would have all been safe and sound.

    Leave a comment:

  • anomalies
    Banned

  • anomalies
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Originally posted by The White Album
    Anomalies, you should start a seperate Batman thread about how you haven't seen the movie yet. Because nobody would be surprised you would do something like that.
    White Album on ignore!

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  • The White Album
    Member

  • The White Album
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Originally posted by anomalies
    I didn't see it yet. And, ele, I think it's perfectly fine for you to post your own review thread. Don't let anyone dissuade you.
    Anomalies, you should start a seperate Batman thread about how you haven't seen the movie yet. Because nobody would be surprised you would do something like that.

    Leave a comment:

  • anomalies
    Banned

  • anomalies
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    I didn't see it yet. And, ele, I think it's perfectly fine for you to post your own review thread. Don't let anyone dissuade you.

    P.S. Seen any dinos lately?

    Leave a comment:


  • OkeyDokey
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Interesting points, Deus. Bruce is more compelling than Batman. But then, it is an origins story and is about Bruce's path to get to becoming Batman, so it's understandable. The movie explores the psychology of how a man becomes a superhero. It will be interesting to see how Nolan balances Bruce vs. Batman in the sequel (which is a given).

    But I agree with you that the action sequences were muddy. Definitely the weak point of the direction.

    I agree with Ele that the use of fear as a theme was brilliant. Everything tied together, even the blue flower. I LOVED when Crane saw Batman as a demon.

    And Caine and Freeman were amazing. Great casting. Great performances.

    Leave a comment:

  • Deus Ex Machine
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  • Deus Ex Machine
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    I thought it was a great Bruce Wayne movie.

    Easily the best rendering of Bruce Wayne's story on film.

    As a Batman film, is was deeply flawed and poorly executed.

    Nolan is a terrible action director which is why this is the first Batman movie where the non-Batman sequences were more interesting and exciting than the actual Batman sequences.

    **POSSIBLE SPOILERS ALERT**

    Some problems with the story:

    1) Batman refuses to kill a man after his training. So he kills many of his fellow League of Shadow members, the man he thought was his master and burns the place down, almost certainly killing the one man he refused to kill in the first place.

    2) Batman is trained to use his intelligence and skills to deceive and evade through stealth. Everything Batman does draws attention to himself and he escapes through sheer luck and use of force to overcome that which he should be avoiding and evading.

    3) Batman wants to save a childhood friend. That's cool. What's not cool is that he causes millions of dollars in damage doing it, not to mention seriously injuring, crippling and killing countless police officers and innocent civilians during his ill conceived and poorly handled car chase over roof tops and through Gotham's streets.

    Batman's not a hero in this film, he's a terrorist inflicting wide spread damage and chaos wherever he goes. Whatever happened to the Batman who used his intelligence and agility to escape and evade? Any idiot can plow a tank through cars.

    4) The film promises us big fight sequences with stunning physical stunts but every action and fight sequence has all the style and excitement of a Three's Company prat fall. Even the much anticipated show down between Bats and his old mentor is a plodding effort of lame choreography that is over in the blink of an eye.

    5) The water evaporator. Don't even get me started on how absurd that is or how poorly integrated to the story it was.

    I really wanted to love this movie. I really did.

    It is a more mature and consistent with the comic books effort than the previous films but it was still not as good as it should have, or could have been.

    Nolan is not an action director. His action sequences have always been the weakest part of his films, but at least in Memento and Insomnia there was intense dramatic context for those scenes that gave them the energy and intensity that his direction alone could not give. In Batman, his weakness as an action director is a serious detriment to the film.

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  • MacG
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Originally posted by elephant1978
    Um...so, yeah. I really liked the movie.

    I'd just also like to add that I'm giving mad respect to Warner Bros. for allowing Nolan to do what he did. It's a hell of a gamble from a studio. This film is so dark and dangerous, it's hard to imagine a studio having the balls to allow it to be made.

    Ele...
    Sorry your thread was hijacked for a couple posts there, Ele.... I forgot that sarcasm still doesn't come across well in written form, which is what my first response was supposed to be: sarcastic.

    Glad you liked the film. 99.9% of America seems to....

    Leave a comment:

  • Empath
    New User

  • Empath
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Originally posted by elephant1978
    Um...so, yeah. I really liked the movie.

    I'd just also like to add that I'm giving mad respect to Warner Bros. for allowing Nolan to do what he did. It's a hell of a gamble from a studio. This film is so dark and dangerous, it's hard to imagine a studio having the balls to allow it to be made.

    Ele...
    I entirely agree. It's so wonderful to see a studio deciding not to screw up a good thing...
    I'm just really saddened that the reputation of the past few has so influenced the acceptance of this one. Many people I've talked to think it's a PREQUEL and intended to tie into the previous movies .

    Leave a comment:

  • elephant1978
    Member

  • elephant1978
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Um...so, yeah. I really liked the movie.

    I'd just also like to add that I'm giving mad respect to Warner Bros. for allowing Nolan to do what he did. It's a hell of a gamble from a studio. This film is so dark and dangerous, it's hard to imagine a studio having the balls to allow it to be made.

    Ele...

    Leave a comment:

  • Hassan_Chop
    Regular

  • Hassan_Chop
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    First, I like to apologize to ELe for getting off topic.

    But to basically ask me to zip and let it go? I think of these boards like television: if you don't like what you're watching (reading)....change the channel (skip my posts).
    MacG, your reply shows the level of your maturity and thanks for the tip, done.

    Leave a comment:

  • The White Album
    Member

  • The White Album
    replied
    Re: Elephant's Batman Begins review...spoiler free, I think

    Dammit, MacG! Why are you so dogmatic and righteous? Why can't you just live and let live? Why does every thread have to be the MacG show?

    Leave a comment:

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