The Ethics of Reading

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: The Ethics of Reading

    Originally posted by Bitter Script Reader View Post
    How is it wrong if it's part of my job? And I'm not putting myself above someone if I point out that my job necessitates that and the profession of someone outside the industry doesn't.
    When you say disseminating scripts is "part of your job" you are clearly suggesting that the dissemination is authorized, either expressly by the screenwriter (in the case of an unsold script) or expressly by the party which has purchased it (i.e. your employer). So it sounds like what you mean is that you, as an agent of your employer, have been directed and duly authorized by your employer or the rightsholder to send that script to colleagues of yours (e.g. your equivalents at other companies).

    Now perhaps this sort of authorization does exist in the form of a blank informal policy to the effect that all such employees at your company are permitted to share intellectual property with colleagues (and perhaps other individuals) on a discretionary basis. But frankly I doubt it. I think what is actually happening is that such employees are sometimes expressly directed to transmit scripts and other property of their employers to individuals at other companies, and that they also have access to further properties, and that there is a culture (differing in slight degrees from company to company) which generally tolerates without officially condoning the practice of sharing scripts amongst employees (even of competitors) on a discretionary basis, provided these properties are not "leaked" publicly.

    If this is correct, then script sharing between assistants etc. is probably not morally wrong (so long as the rightful owners condone it) but is certainly legally murky (depending just how informal these policies are). It would depend on the extent of your express authority to share a particular property. However on the basic question of this thread, it is difficult to maintain that script sharing is not an "elitist" practice with respect to other aspiring writers who lack such access. It's intentionally designed to exclude external parties which de facto includes the vast majority of aspiring writers. Unaltered spec scripts and in-development materials are scarce, yet these are important tools of the trade to an aspiring screenwriter, and hold almost zero value for any other party. That these tools are kept locked away by rightful owners/agents is fine and good; what's irksome is that not only do the minor keyholders see no problem playing with the tools regardless of their actual degree of legal authorization but that, moreover, they see this as a boon to writers. This practice is of very limited value to aspiring writers outside the sharing circle, and in fact appears to perpetuate a cycle of privilege in who gets to sell a screenplay. You are circulating material that does not belong to you, that you are usually not expressly authorized to share, and that only rarely benefits an actual author and virtually never benefits any aspiring writer other than yourselves. It's probably not immoral, but let's not pretend it's a good or altruistic practice. It only benefits people who can manage to obtain the access.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: The Ethics of Reading

      Originally posted by rockridesva View Post
      As for studios, etc. knowing who Scriptshadow is, I'm sure someone somewhere does, but the realities of that are grossly exaggerated by a tiny niche group, as I stated. I really can't stress this enough. And yes, WME reps the guy Carson found, that doesn't even remotely factor in to the "agency" knowing him. He is as well known in this town, as a forum such as this, or some random band on Myspace. I'm not trying to undersell any of these people/places, I'm just making a point. And btw, I'm not in any way condoning, or not condoning Scriptshadow. I personally know who they are, but very loosely on the what they do, because I could care less.
      Hi rockridesva,

      Do you acknowledge that whether everyone in Hollywood is completely up to date on scriptshadow or not, the issue on whether it's right or wrong is independent of that?

      I see a big difference between someone like BSR sending a script to someone they know and someone else posting the same script on send space.

      I also don't think anyone is saying the actual act of sending another person a script is immoral - it's about context. Reps, assistants, and readers send scripts around and, in general, it's a good thing.

      When you attack BSR (I know you're saying you're not, but you are) you are completely ignoring that context.

      And let's not forget there are places like simplyscripts that have literally thousands of scripts, including many Oscar winners. If you want scripts to become a better writer you don't need to be part of some exclusive club of reps and assistants.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: The Ethics of Reading

        Originally posted by Anagram View Post
        And let's not forget there are places like simplyscripts that have literally thousands of scripts, including many Oscar winners. If you want scripts to become a better writer you don't need to be part of some exclusive club of reps and assistants.
        Scripts from already produced films are not at issue here. But actually the very first post in this thread anticipates your point: often the "declassified" version of a script made available after a film has been released is not the version which sold or got attention (it may arguably be better, but that is to argue beside the point). It contains changes, omissions, etc.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: The Ethics of Reading

          Originally posted by Hecky View Post
          Scripts from already produced films are not at issue here. But actually the very first post in this thread anticipates your point: often the "declassified" version of a script made available after a film has been released is not the version which sold or got attention (it may arguably be better, but that is to argue beside the point). It contains changes, omissions, etc.
          I'm referencing a false dichotomy - reading scripts is a fantastic educational tool for new writers. Disapproving of sites that distribute scripts can be seen as a way of keeping that valuable educational tool out of the hands of writers trying to learn.

          But there's more than one option out there - places like simplyscripts fill that need.

          I understand your point about selling drafts, I just don't think it's a big or real enough issue to justify distributing drafts of scripts that the authors or owners don't want out there.

          Theres little risk of legal action being taken against someone who does that (though it does happen). So in the end it comes down to professional courtesy, a code prevalent in any job, which you choose to honor or not.

          We're all in this together, and oftentimes our job opportunities come from each other. So I will respect the wishes of other writers and avoid anything that might harm their prospects.

          But again, the chances of being taken to court are slim. It is basically your choice to make.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: The Ethics of Reading

            Originally posted by Hecky View Post
            Unaltered spec scripts and in-development materials are scarce, yet these are important tools of the trade to an aspiring screenwriter, and hold almost zero value for any other party. That these tools are kept locked away by rightful owners/agents is fine and good; what's irksome is that not only do the minor keyholders see no problem playing with the tools regardless of their actual degree of legal authorization but that, moreover, they see this as a boon to writers.
            It's late and I'm probably not going to be as articulate as I'd like. But I feel like you're not seeing what's laid out even in your own post.

            In-DEVELOPMENT scripts do hold value, actual monetary value, for the people developing them.

            A minor keyholder does in fact hold a key, even if it's minor. An aspiring writer does not, sad to say. A freshman film student in Minnesota, say, can do nothing at the moment to move production of a film forward, whereas even a lowly intern currently working in any office in town could be in a position, within a reasonably short time, to actually set something up, and even more likely to be able to bring it to the attention of someone who can do something RIGHT NOW.

            As soon as you (and I don't mean you specifically, but the generic you, anybody, aspiring or not) understand that Hollywood, as an entity, owes nothing to anybody... well, you may not be happier, but at least you'll have your head on straight.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: The Ethics of Reading

              Originally posted by carcar View Post
              As soon as you ( I don't mean you specifically, but the generic you, anybody, aspiring or not) understand that Hollywood, as an entity, owes nothing to anybody... well, you may not be happier, but at least you'll have your head on straight.
              Very true, and not just for this subject (hello BL conspiracies). But, it's difficult to argue aspiring writers owe Hollywood anything either.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: The Ethics of Reading

                Originally posted by Anagram View Post
                I'm referencing a false dichotomy - reading scripts is a fantastic educational tool for new writers. Disapproving of sites that distribute scripts can be seen as a way of keeping that valuable educational tool out of the hands of writers trying to learn.

                But there's more than one option out there - places like simplyscripts fill that need.

                I understand your point about selling drafts, I just don't think it's a big or real enough issue to justify distributing drafts of scripts that the authors or owners don't want out there.

                Theres little risk of legal action being taken against someone who does that (though it does happen). So in the end it comes down to professional courtesy, a code prevalent in any job, which you choose to honor or not.

                We're all in this together, and oftentimes our job opportunities come from each other. So I will respect the wishes of other writers and avoid anything that might harm their prospects.

                But again, the chances of being taken to court are slim. It is basically your choice to make.
                Well, you are looking at the exception. Clearly, I was made an example of, but that hasn't stopped people, has it?
                http://www.pjmcilvaine.com/

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: The Ethics of Reading

                  Originally posted by Anagram View Post
                  Hi rockridesva,

                  Do you acknowledge that whether everyone in Hollywood is completely up to date on scriptshadow or not, the issue on whether it's right or wrong is independent of that?

                  I see a big difference between someone like BSR sending a script to someone they know and someone else posting the same script on send space.

                  I also don't think anyone is saying the actual act of sending another person a script is immoral - it's about context. Reps, assistants, and readers send scripts around and, in general, it's a good thing.

                  When you attack BSR (I know you're saying you're not, but you are) you are completely ignoring that context.

                  And let's not forget there are places like simplyscripts that have literally thousands of scripts, including many Oscar winners. If you want scripts to become a better writer you don't need to be part of some exclusive club of reps and assistants.
                  But pro-writers get it too (pro; selling or just repped). From those same people. Why them and not us?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: The Ethics of Reading

                    Because they are PRO!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: The Ethics of Reading

                      Originally posted by carcar View Post
                      Because they are PRO!
                      That's not a valid reason.

                      So the people that are capable of stealing other people's work and getting it produced before said material are allowed to read it (not saying anyone would do this).

                      But the aspiring writer is not?

                      What's the difference between a repped writer receiving Pacific Rim and me receiving Pacific Rim? Let's say I get repped tomorrow. Is it now, all of a sudden, OK for me to ask for script and get it?

                      Again, this is not about Scriptshadow, nobody agrees with sending it to thousands of people and reviewing it before the script is ready.

                      You also say:

                      A minor keyholder does in fact hold a key, even if it's minor. An aspiring writer does not, sad to say. A freshman film student in Minnesota, say, can do nothing at the moment to move production of a film forward, whereas even a lowly intern currently working in any office in town could be in a position, within a reasonably short time, to actually set something up, and even more likely to be able to bring it to the attention of someone who can do something RIGHT NOW.
                      So that's why writers read in-development scripts? They don't want to see what's selling. They don't want to find out about the hype? They don't want to see if there's a clash between a certain idea/script and theirs?

                      They want to read it because they might be able to help the writer?

                      I'm specifically talking about writers because that's what we're aspiring to be.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The Ethics of Reading

                        Once, I developed a friendship with a big time screenwriter. He was, at the time, working on a big budget action movie that was relevant to my interests. He sent me a copy of the current draft of the script he'd just turned in with strict instructions to send it to NO ONE EVER.

                        He trusted me, and I appreciated that trust. The draft I have is not the draft of the movie that was made, but I have never ever sent it to anyone, because I promised I wouldn't. I was grateful he gave me the opportunity to see this script in an early stage. It was very cool. But he didn't owe me that - he did it as a favor because he knew me and wanted to help.

                        Nobody owes you scripts. Everybody knows they get passed around the screenwriting community. They always have. But the understanding is, they stay here, within the group, not shared with any old kid on the street, even the baby writers who really want them. When you're ready for a screenwriting career, people will start trusting you with scripts.

                        At least, that's how it used to be. Now everyone feels like they should be entitled to everything because they want it and somebody else has it. When I started out, scripts were tough to get. I just figured that's the way it was. Everyone assured me that eventually I would make friends with people who had them, and that those people would start sharing them with me, and in the mean time, I had plenty of produced work to choose from. And as informal as that system was, it worked. I never thought to complain, or that anyone owed me anything different. I hadn't given anything, why should I get?

                        Nobody owes you anything.
                        Chicks Who Script podcast

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: The Ethics of Reading

                          Originally posted by emily blake View Post
                          Once, I developed a friendship with a big time screenwriter. He was, at the time, working on a big budget action movie that was relevant to my interests. He sent me a copy of the current draft of the script he'd just turned in with strict instructions to send it to NO ONE EVER.

                          He trusted me, and I appreciated that trust. The draft I have is not the draft of the movie that was made, but I have never ever sent it to anyone, because I promised I wouldn't. I was grateful he gave me the opportunity to see this script in an early stage. It was very cool. But he didn't owe me that - he did it as a favor because he knew me and wanted to help.

                          Nobody owes you scripts. Everybody knows they get passed around the screenwriting community. They always have. But the understanding is, they stay here, within the group, not shared with any old kid on the street, even the baby writers who really want them. When you're ready for a screenwriting career, people will start trusting you with scripts.

                          At least, that's how it used to be. Now everyone feels like they should be entitled to everything because they want it and somebody else has it. When I started out, scripts were tough to get. I just figured that's the way it was. Everyone assured me that eventually I would make friends with people who had them, and that those people would start sharing them with me, and in the mean time, I had plenty of produced work to choose from. And as informal as that system was, it worked. I never thought to complain, or that anyone owed me anything different. I hadn't given anything, why should I get?

                          Nobody owes you anything.
                          So that's the only way you got scripts? From the writers themselves? So the people reading Passengers/Pacific Rim etc. got them from the writers?

                          If not, who gave them the permission to read it? I haven't actually seen any of these writers say 'I'm OK with my script being passed to the hundreds of writers in town, as long as it doesn't reach the aspiring writers'.

                          As for your last comment:

                          'Nobody owes you anything.'

                          I don't want to sound like an *******, but do I owe them anything? So if I open my Gmail and see 'The Equalizer.pdf' script just send to me, I delete it?

                          Are you telling me if everyone's talking about a trailer of a film that came out a few days too early, you would notwatch it?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: The Ethics of Reading

                            "So the people that are capable of stealing other people's work and getting it produced before said material are allowed to read it (not saying anyone would do this)."

                            You just did say that.

                            But the aspiring writer is not?

                            What's the difference between a repped writer receiving Pacific Rim and me receiving Pacific Rim? Let's say I get repped tomorrow. Is it now, all of a sudden, OK for me to ask for script and get it?

                            Yes, because now you are in the game, not in the bleachers yelling at the people on the field.

                            Quote:
                            A minor keyholder does in fact hold a key, even if it's minor. An aspiring writer does not, sad to say. A freshman film student in Minnesota, say, can do nothing at the moment to move production of a film forward, whereas even a lowly intern currently working in any office in town could be in a position, within a reasonably short time, to actually set something up, and even more likely to be able to bring it to the attention of someone who can do something RIGHT NOW.
                            So that's why writers read in-development scripts? They don't want to see what's selling. They don't want to find out about the hype? They don't want to see if there's a clash between a certain idea/script and theirs?

                            Because for a represented and/or working writer, those needs are immediate. For someone who's written the first draft of their first script, those needs are not.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: The Ethics of Reading

                              With so many scripts available commercially, if someone can't learn from those available legally, why would he/she need un-produced scripts? And why would that person begrudge industry professionals who have to read those scripts as part of their daily work?

                              In television, writers need scripts of produced episodes for shows they're going to spec. Unfortunately, it is not entirely legal for those scripts to get passed around. However, they do get distributed and everyone agrees to look the other way because the episode has already been produced. Pilots that get passed on do get sent around as samples, but they're not posted wide and it's definitely not during the development of those scripts.

                              This is not any different from the music industry - Metallica didn't get pissed until someone stole their unfinished album and posted it on Napster. There are enough examples out there that unless someone works in the industry, they really don't NEED to read something unfinished. If you have a problem with it, get a job in which you need to read scripts. It's really that simple.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: The Ethics of Reading

                                One of the requirements of working in the industry is understanding the hierarchy and the protocol involved. A few months in the crappiest job in Hollywood teaches you that, and that's why a grunt on a desk gets the privilege of looking at scripts in progress.

                                Hype is less important than you think. Hype is a fanboy's game. And looking at a leaked trailer does nothing to improve my writing.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X