P.T. Anderson

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  • #16
    Re: MAGNOLIA

    Tao -

    While I loved Magnolia, I think I can answer your question:

    Daddy Daycare, Men In Black II and Lost World 4354 don't aspire to be anything greater than bad popcorn entertainment, so you either take 'em or leave 'em. In the overall scheme of things, they don't amount to much (unless you like that sort of thing and want to write it). So, why bother ripping into them? It's like kicking a one-legged, retarded hamster.

    Magnolia reached for the heavens (heh) and, in many people's eyes, failed miserably, which seems to be the greater sin. In other words, it didn't live up to its billing and had a harder, longer fall than something that aspires to be crap and ends up being just that. In fact, the latter doesn't fall at all, because it is exactly what it pretends to be.

    Hence, Magnolia is the greater offender.

    At least, that's how I read it.

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    • #17
      re:magnolia

      Okay, though I think Boogie Nights was far better then Magnolia, I didn't have as much of a problem with the film as others did.

      I thought Magnolia, like Boogie Nights had a great cast who did their job well. I believed these characters, I was sucked into their various anxiety's, and I couldn't help but crack up at every scene John C. Reily was in.

      Is it one of those films I can watch again and again? Not at all. But, all three times I did watch it, I found afterwards there was more I liked about it, then didn't.

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      • #18
        Re: re:magnolia

        "All these people that get so @#%$ worked up about it - why aren't you jabbering about Lost World III? Or Men In Black II? Or Daddy @#%$ Daycare? There is steaming @#%$ stinking up the life of the culture all around you and the movie you choose to "especially" despise is Magnolia?"

        'cos no one's calling lost world iii, men in black ii or daddy daycare "art", "elevated film", or brilliant cinema. in a sense, what tony said. the problem with films like magnolia is they take bigger leap, and as a result, a bigger fall. i think when a movie like men in black ii sucks, people don't really give a crap -- after all, few thought it would be great. yet magnolia tries to be one of those films "about something", and despite all its earnestness, it ends up being about nothing.

        yeah it's original but i can't like the movie just because it's not as shitty as daddy daycare. commercial movies can be great, and can be sucky. same with indie.

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        • #19
          Re: re:magnolia

          There was a 70-count thread which explored Magnolia in the Films section a long while back. I think I was the only one(besides Tao) who came to the film's defense.

          I could go over everything I found refreshing and bold about this movie, but when the film's detractors are insecure to the point of dismissing people who enjoyed it as "art house dorks", why even bother responding?

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          • #20
            Re: re:magnolia

            For what it's worth, Gore, I liked it a lot. Until the storm of frogs â€" partly because it was unnecessarily gross but also because I think any real function of it (dramatically or otherwise) could have been fulfilled with a much more believable storm of golfball-sized hail.

            In the end, all of those factual missteps contribute to the overall "urban legend" quality of the whole thing. I mean, the sheer number of coincidental connections in the story was really what it was all about.

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            • #21
              Magnolia

              NARRATOR
              And it is in the humble opinion of this
              narrator that these strange things
              happen all the time....

              The "Frog Rain" had to be more unusual than a storm of golf-ball sized hail, in Anderson's opinion, to resolve all the threads of the characters' stories.

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              • #22
                Re: Magnolia

                While I understand the intent, Fortean, it went beyond the bounds of believability, especially since in the only recorded instance of it raining frogs (other than the Biblical plague), it rained very small frogs, not those huge ugly mo-fos. It just pulled me right out of the story and right into "there's no way in hell that could ever happen." And there isn't.

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                • #23
                  Re: Magnolia

                  The movie was two-plus hours of people crying "you may be done with the past but it's not done with you!".

                  It's hard to single out the weakest part of the story because so much of it was weak. The frogs are right up there with t he most bizarre and idiotic ending ever used in film, so if that was his goal, he achieved it in spades.

                  But it has happened:

                  allaboutfrogs.org/weird/g...ining.html

                  What made the frogs so weak was the overall lack of cohesion or internal logic of thematic unity that would have made this spectacle the resonating defining metaphor it was intended to be. It wasn't so much of a story as a series of melodramatic actor "moments" in service of a theme rather than an actual story.

                  This movie continually rears its ugly head, so all I can do is cry and scream into the camera --

                  "You may be done with Magnolia but it's not done with you!"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: PT Anderson and Magnolia

                    I think we as writer's get a bit bogged down in the structure rules and character rules. It's just as possible to have foggy judgement because you know those rules, well, as it is to have bad judgement because you don't know them.

                    I agree with some of the remarks that Magnolia is heavy handed and obvious in some ways, but that's if we are judging it as a normal film. Several people have pointed out that filler like Daddy Day Care gets a pass among writers while Magnolia gets raked over the coals. That vigorous response from the seats proves it's not a normal film. It's a very unique film, and the characters may not provide every textbook example of what a good character is, but that doesn't mean it doesn't succeed.

                    I personally thought the Frogs were great. I actually laughed out loud in the theatre (altho most people were stunned into silence). I felt it was a exploding release from a weird sort of tension. And that tension wasn't necessarily because the characters were good... but maybe it's possible even heavy handed characters deployed the right way can have a powerful emotional effect. I even thought the moment where everyone sings - which should be stupid and I'm even remembering that way right now - somehow primed the audience for a sort of falling apa

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                    • #25
                      Re: PT Anderson and Magnolia

                      Sorry, my previous post left without me...

                      I was going to say something like... perhaps the heavyhandedness itself is a device. You get pushed to a certain level thru a series of sentiments that run the spectrum from believable to stupid, but still tension builds. When the characters erupt into song, it's incredibly stupid, but still, it opens something up, prepares you for some sort of weirdness. Then the frogs...

                      I thought the movie evoked a powerful response, even if all of these criticisms are true. And that counts for something.

                      Actors are rushing to do PT Anderson films. There's a reason for that, and it may not have to do with Robert McKee and textbook perfect characters. That REALLY counts for something.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: PT Anderson and Magnolia

                        How do you not judge it as a normal film. Either it's a movie or it isn't. Either it tells a story well or it doesn't. This isn't about McKee or paradigms or being blinded to his genius by our own mediocrity. It's a simple standard by which all films are judged -- either it works or it doesn't.

                        I can't imagine a "type" of film where heavy handedness and poor story telling would be seen as virtues and assets.

                        The reason people want to work with him is simple -- HYPE. Take that away and he couldn't get arrested.

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                        • #27
                          Re: PT Anderson and Magnolia

                          While I might hate it on a second viewing, I think the majority of why I liked it had to do with individual stories and the actors who took part. For example, I really enjoyed watching Phillip Seymour Hoffman's story, both for him and for Julianne Moore.

                          I should also confess that I watched it before I considered myself a screenwriter, so it's entirely possible that I'd despise it if I watched it again.

                          Or maybe I'm just a more forgiving viewer.

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                          • #28
                            Re: PT Anderson and Magnolia

                            I thought "Magnolia" a rather pathetic piece of filmmaking. Overlong, filled with good actors being ill-used, it was a paint-by-numbers exercise in illuminating a sophomoric outlook on life. The frogs struck me as a poor device for something that might have been expressed in a sharper, better-defined way. After all those hours in the theatre I felt as if someone had read me a children's book and then proceeded to explain every scene in it. Insulting your audience to gain sympathy is, for me, a cardinal sin in our business.

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                            • #29
                              Re: PT Anderson and Magnolia

                              People (not just the folks on this board) have been so split with this film. What about Punch Drunk? Can't wait for the DVD this month.

                              -ros

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